Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

I am all for pushing the envelope to what can be done on a car etc, but this is meant to be a "production car "lap record.....Lol

What do you make of this Video Fake,? on my reading someone has a case to answerer.

Imv Trofeos are dangerous on road in even just damp condition's. Mac rang me up and told me to change em to Pzero on my LT-SP when we had some bad weather. If you look at the tread pattern they have almost no ability to disperse water, not that they are designed to do so.

 

Got a lap video for that 7:20 or is that yet another time we're taking on faith?

Aside from that, you're comparing a factory lap to a magazine lap. Based on the fact the same magazine only got 7:13 with a 918, that 7:28 equate to ~7:12 on a factory lap, or maybe 7:08 based on the 7:34 with an LFA NRE.

Oh here we go with the tyre excuses again. So the 20% stickier than regular Cup 2s on the GT3 RS are no match for stock Trofeo Rs?

Depends on driver, some LT drivers at COTA found the 918 a low hanging fruit, especially after the battery cack-a-doodle-doos out.

 

The 7.20 is the factory claimed time.

Absolutely, the Trofeos are much more sticky than even the 21" Cups on RS. This is reflected in the wear rates, easy call that you will get about 3 Times more track days from a set of Cups than that of the Trofeos....Even more if you are not fussed about Grip level reduction due to heat Cycles.

 

I start to think cars should be able to use any kind of rubber they like for record attempts, including slicks. That's the only way we can have a levelled playing field, rewarding cars easier on their tyres

 

Yes and the 7:28 is a magazine time, which is usually 15-20s slower than a factory time, hence incomparable.

Are they heck. They're only marginally better than stock Cup 2s according to Mikey and Alex. Forget them being better than bespoke N1 Cup 2s, Z06 Cup 2s or AMG GTR Cup 2s altogether.

Wear rates are nothing to do with grip. Cup 2s have a higher UTQG value than Cup+ but they're >1s/minute faster based on Jerez and Aragon tests. Trofeo Rs have the same wear rating as Corsas but are ~1s/minute faster. Kumho ACRs are rated at 200, but absolutely kill all the aforementioned. Cheese has a UTQG of 0 but makes for a damn poor tyre compound. Often wear figures don't even represent wear rate.

Skid pad and stopping tests are the only true measure of grip but there are other factors to good lap times, like stability and consistency, how well they maintain the same contact patch shape under load etc.

 

you just treated a variable as a constant

this is not about the LFA being faster/slower than the 12C, this is about the LFA being able to meet its claimed time of 7:23

lets run through this again, we have 3 datapoints for the LFA on the nürburgring and a claimed gap between the NE and the standard, you have a bunch on unconfirmed laptimes for the P1

let me also quote YOU from GCF:

"Exactly. Swap in a factory driver and that already wipes off 20s without any vehicle alterations. Add new improved Pirelli tyres and that nets you anything from 1+s/minute. So you're already more or less there without the weight reduction, increased power and aero improvements."

link: Huracan Performante | Page 5 | GermanCarForum

this is the second time you admit that factory laptimes are worth 20 seconds(variable), the other was in in this very thread

the thing about the P1 claim is that you lack factory and magazine laptimes to compare it up against, Mclaren could've given a P1 to Sport Auto and had them try to beat 7:13 but they didn't

also using "my logic":
7:34 - 7:14
7:38 - 7:18

falls outside claim and is therefore not valid, you didn't even apply my logic

 

True but the disadvantage is that you don't get to see how the cars perform within the limits of road legal tyres. The P1 would definitely benefit a lot from slicks, given the traction issues with that much power on road tyres.

But yeah, I get your point, the performance of £200+k worth of car boils mostly down to the performance of <£2k of rubber.

 

should we demand proof that he's an engineer? just a simple engineer diploma were the school he went to is visible and the name "lieven" is attached to it

 

So have you, several of them. The difference between magazine and factory laps, depends on driver performance, which varies day to day even with the same driver, conditions, which also vary, engine power, which varies car to car (even with the same model) and with atmospheric conditions. Which driver drove for the magazine, not always the same, HvS, CG or PE etc. How much the driver weighs, what they had for breakfast, how much sleep they had the night before.

The claimed time was 7:20 and I don't doubt that it is capable of that time, but the same reasoning process suggests that the P1 (or LT) is easily capable of sub-7 minutes. The only thing stopping you from accepting that is the 918's time, which is 10s down on what it might achieve with more effort. If the 918 didn't exist, you wouldn't have any problem accepting sub-7 for the P1. But you have a rat in your ass about it because of Porsche and it's the same rat in ass that's behind all these conspiracy theories about the Performante. Joseph Goebbels is alive and well and works for Porsche.

Yeah, so that same 20s gives 7:08 for a 12C on Corsas and 7:00 (or less) on Trofeo Rs. A car that's 4s slower than a P1 on Laguna with the same driver over a lap lasting 1/5th of a 'ring lap. But you argue that such corrections can't be applied to McLarens because.... because 918.

JFC, if a Performante upgrade can get a stock Huracan from a 7:28 magazine lap to a 6:52 factory lap, then what can an LT upgrade do to a 12C which registered the same damn 7:28 with the slower Sport Auto driver?

Also, consider this, a Mk V ACR's time varied by 3s on Laguna with the same driver on different days, now you can be sure a factory tester will go back enough times to hit good, if not perfect conditions. Multiply 3s by 5. Yeah, get the picture.

They gave the P1 to Sport Auto for a comparo, Sport Auto chose to take them to Hockenheim. Sport Auto failed to release the lap times. The 918 was in question had the pre-production HL Mode that it ran the 'ring lap with. 6 months later it had a different HL Mode, which lead to a 3-5mph Vpeak improvement at Laguna but lead to the battery clunking out on Sebring after just half the time the 'ring 918's battery lasted for.

Porsche 918 Spyder gegen McLaren P1: 887 und 916 PS für den Legendenstatus - AUTO MOTOR UND SPORT

 

The name isn't Lieven. This may come as a shock but not everyone uses their real name on forums. I doubt Scuderia980 is really called that either, unless his parents were really huge Ferrari fans.

I will not disclose anything personal, but here you are, final year results, certificates are easily faked.
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Might not be a big fan of you on here, but if that is yours, then congrats.

 

Heres a proper video of the true 918 vs Performante, and an analysis of the times from some over at LT.
https://youtu.be/7sTVZozsrFA

Watching the video one wil lsee that the 918 is always ahead of the P.
- 01:51 - take the tree on the left as a reference. The 918 is about 0.5s quicker.
- 02:14 - they are about head to head.
- 02:18 - little advantage for the P
- 02:23 - again head to head
- 02:39 - the reference is the wall on the left. The P is starting to gain is about 1s ahead
- 02:47 - check the Ykohoma sign at the right. The P is still 1s ahead.
- 03:10 - red part of the railguard right. 918 gained some time and P is about 0.7s ahead.
- 03:25 - fence on the left side. 918 gained again in the high speed section. P is still a little ahead, but less than 0.3s
- 03:38 - fence on the right. P is ahead about 0.3s
- 03:47 - in this turn the security fences have been renewed but you can see the emergency exit. Cams have different angles but at the entry of the turn the 918 seems to be in front the P. Porsche was quicker in this section.

So after more than half the track, both cars are head to head, 918 was quicker on the straights, P gained in fast turns. Now it's getting interesting !

- 03:58 - they enter the "Karusell" with about 0.5s advance for the P
- 04:03 - the P already left the Karusell while the 918 still sees a longer part of the section. The P gained more than 0.5s and again is 1s ahead with more speed out of the turn.
- 04:27 - Sign at the right, the P has gained another second and is 2 sec ahead.
- 04:54 - P is still 2s in front - both had the same section time
- 05:06 - P is now >2s ahead
- 05:14 - is is 2.5s in front
- 05:36 - fence at the right, ca 2.6s
- 05:48 - P reaches the long turn with the hard surface - 3s ahead
- 05:57 - sign a the right, 3.5s for the P
- 06:10 - Audi sign above the track. Another 0.5 for the P that is now 4s ahead.
- 06:32 - Bridge, 5s for the P !

The video ends little early but it shows that the P started to pull away after 03:48 on the track. Before that I have seen mor advantages for the 918. But then, especially in the sections with the hard track surface the 918 lost some time and therefore did not had the speed out of the turns like the P had. The new surface at Flugplatz may have allowed the P to brake later what gave another 0.5 sec. But all the other sections the P went ahead are the same since years. So this really counts to the AWD and great traction the Performante has with the new tires. I just wonder why the 918 did not reach the top end speed uphill and makes me thinking that the batteries were not delivering the power they did at the beginning of the track.

 

Yup, and the post production battery usage rate is even more aggressive in HLM.

 

Hold the presses new ring record

https://www.facebook.com/BoostedBoris/videos/1275624349200628/

 

I've ignored so many ppl on this thread the only posts I see are my own. But you slipped through (and rightfully so)! Haha

 

OMG. So, do you enjoy this thread seeing only your own posts?
Curious, but do we really need forums to practise such phenomena ?

We need more "positive" people on these forums.
Cheers.

 

Too funny, I think I have see that certificate posted on the internet ages ago by many people .....

 

Actually, I will post mine too
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Should I even respond? Nah, waste of time to even correct his mistakes.

But look at his pic, how would moving the Cg affect the tire contact pressure when it is above the wheels enter line vs below? If the Cg is above the wheels centerline, there is a lifting force acting on the inside wheel, thus decreasing the contact pressure. Move that to below the wheels centreline and see how the force acts. Magically, the pressure on the inside wheel reversed!

The outside wheel will still be loaded because of the weight transfer, but the inside is also loaded and hence more mechanical grip.

Gotta love it when he posted stuff to contradict his own 'theories'.

 

these are the types of posts that can't be faked, a request with your username attached to it in your handwriting:
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/88D4u1/

 

Yes but as boyko states, I have many names and sooner or later someone always gets tired of me making a mug out of them and asks for me to prove my background.

 

Is that the best you can do when you been so thoroughly proven completely wrong?

Another typo on your part perhaps? Perhaps when you wrote, 'height of CoG above axle' you actually meant to write 'ground' instead of 'axle'.

The weight transfer is determined by the height of the CoG above the ground.

Weight Transfer: how it works and how to use it in setup
Calculating Commercial Vehicle Weight Distribution & Payload Made Easy - Articles - Safety & Accident - Articles - Work Truck
Part 1: Weight Transfer

The weight acts downwards which ever side it shifts too.

Look at the equation and the diagram, where is 'h' measured from, ground or axle?

This is now your second attempt at re-writing the laws of physics. By your logic, measuring h from axle, the 918 has negative load transfer in cornering.
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Good enough?
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Hi Apolo,
No use arguing about tires (or anything in fact) with this guy. Doesn't matter what your track experience is, he will always claim that the Cup 2 tire is equivalent to Trofeo.

This has always been part of his narrative; it explains to him why the 918 could beat the P1- crappy Corsas vs magical Michelins was the difference. Only the Trofeo was the equalizer.

If you still discuss this topic with him, perhaps ask him what direct experience he has with any of the three tires. It will be a very short conversation.

 

I've quoted two people who own both the P1 and 918 and have extensive track experience with Corsas, Cup 2s and Trofeo Rs. I've also quoted opinions from Viper and Porsche owners on Corsa Systems vs Cup+ back in 2012 and Cup 2 vs Cup+ tests. The long and short of it is that Cup 2s are a lot faster than Corsas and Cup+, Corsas are roughly equivalent to Cup+ in terms of grip and Trofeo Rs are a smidge faster than stock Cup 2s (not bespoke ones).