Odometer Rollback Scandal

The story is certainly gaining traction, regardless of its journalistic quality. Could blow up further and spread to other expensive marques.

Would be interesting to see if worried owners of recently bought used cars start taking them in to dealerships to compare the odometer to the data stored in the (engine and transmission) ECUs. That's the gotcha here, the ability of verifying true mileage on the spot by interrogating the ECUs for comparison to the odometer reading, as opposed to olden days when the analog odometer was the only indicator of mileage.

 

So our "friends" at Jalopcrap keep running this story and have tried to investigate.

After their idiotic headline "Ferrari dealers going nuts" or whatever they come up with

ZIP.
NADA.
NOTHING....

On if it was done, how it could be done, and if it had ever been done, if the equipment mentioned even has the ability to do it, if the claims made by the lawyer are even based on anything factual at all other than rumor.

Gee! More fake news. Just what we needed.

 

Nobody involved is going to say one single word to the press. What attorney on Earth is going to let their clients talk about a pending case? You'll have to wait for it to go to trial. Until then all you have to go off is the filed legal docs and hearsay.

 

From what I have read, for a DEIS to be used it needs Ferrari's S.p.A. permission to use it through an internet connection.

To me this does not mean Ferrari S.p.A. gave the OK for the rollback. It just means the device can not be used without Ferrari's permission through their servers. Once the permission is granted the mechanic has control of the DEIS device, which can do rollbacks.

 

Yeah, the bigger story involving Ferrari seem to have no legs, but the specifics involving that dealership might run on. The ability to reset odo's is hardly new, but if the allegation of true about clocking the LaFerrari that's going to raise some eyebrows.

 

My guess is that the authentication to Ferrari is just that. I would imagine that Ferrari has a server that authenticates a username and password given to each device. I don't believe Ferrari is ok'ing every authentication manually.

 

Duplicate Warranty Book + Factory Repair Summary for Enzo #134956
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Since you have access to the book maybe you can help to make sense of the legality of Enzo #134956

Was the car exported out of Canada on a junk title to Italy and then re-imported to New Jersey on a clean title?

Since the odometer was set to 0 after the repair does it carry a NJ Odometer Disclosure statement?

The document from Ferrari states that it was repaired/restored but the picture of the VIN plate make it obvious that the chassis and VIN plate are new? Was there any part of the original car left to be repaired/restored? If not, how can it count as a restoration?

 

From memory Boyd Coddington was prosecuted for such actions in California, where all that he used from a donor car was its "essence" and nothing from the original was ever transferred into the "restored" car that claimed the same title.

The reality is that this practice has been going on since cars were invented, typically by independent third parties. I have never heard of a manufacturer doing such though.

The closest I guess is the latest batch of D types being built by Jaguar, they are not continuation cars as such as the originals did actually exist for a short while, until they were consumed by fire, however in their case they never turned a wheel or left the factory.

 

My point is the "journalistic press" doesn't even bother to investigate other than spreading rumors of things it doesn't even know are true or not.

"No one's talking! They must be guilty!"

 

Another dead profession thanks to the journalism schools. No one doing it now could have gotten a job with the Enquirer 30 years ago.

The job title has become so perverted it no longer has real meaning. They couldn't recognize an HL Menken quote (hell, they probably don't even know who he is) much less get a job writing for him.

 

The internet has made everyone a sage, and tools such as facebook allow their "wisdom" to instantly be spread worldwide.

It used to take centuries for fiction to become fact, i.e religion, King Arthur and Robin Hood, now its just a matter of hours!

However in the case of that Enzo, the evidence is pretty hard and fast.

 

It's not dead, or dying, thanks to journalism schools. It's dying because of the internet.

 

Funny how so many people here blame the messenger.

I'm not particularly trustful of the Daily Mail either, but few people here have any facts to mention themselves.

I regularly scan the market for a FF on eBay - today was the first time in a while I saw one with over 20000 miles. All those 2012s with 4-10000 miles sit there unsold at half their MSRP. 2000 miles a year in a FF? That's a joke.

So many members here claim that the FF is a great (if slightly misdesigned) daily driver. I wonder where their cars are being sold.

 

Ferrari uses device to roll back mileage, salesman accuses | Daily Mail Online

Very sad if true. Bud Root sold me my Ferrari and is a real up-front nice man. Hope he comes out on top in this issue.

 

They can rollback all the want but isn't this what Carfax is for? It will show all the miles on each step of it's car history.

I guess when the service people are in it then they wouldn't report the miles to Carfax as well.

In any case, I can only see this on cars that are less than 500 miles. Anything more, would for sure have gone through some sort of smog service station or repair facility that will report the miles to Carfax at least once. So even if they roll back the odometers on this >500 miles cars it will reflect in Carfax as discrepancies.

This is definitely going to affect Ferrari's credibility for a moment at least IMHO. It's in several online news and for sure will reach TV channels soon.

 

Met Bud Root at Palm Beach Ferrari during a visit last year. Very nice guy and obvious he was old school in his knowledge and customer service.

Met some others there and it was also obvious how little they knew.

Hope it all gets resolved.

Fascinating posts.

Robb

 

I would imagine that only some FF's and Cali's are used as "frequent" drivers, and I'd guess that quite a few are here. Our first FF was swapped with 12K miles, our second is at around 8K. Many I see are super low miles, it's a shame, but they are out there. While a lot of cars are advertised, quite a few are not. (eg. my Speciale with 6K miles was sold but never advertised). Your point is fair, I guess those of us who DO drive them are the minority.
(FWIW we swapped out the Speciale for something else, but kept the FF...hmm)

CarFax is not some "universal and absolute snapshot of the truth". It's 100% reliant on what's reported; whether from legal transactions (eg. DMV) or from service/sales updates. Not sure about you guys, but have you EVER had the DMV actually check the odometer? I have 2 cars that have both required some serious collision work (done impeccably I might add). The insurance company, the body shop and even the dealer itself does not report to Carfax. (and yes, I'll be honest about it when I sell the cars onward).

As far as odometer shifting, 1) it's an illegal but time honored tradition, used to be with screwdrivers, now with computers 2) it's common knowledge that the DEIS (and, with factory support) most of the proprietary scan/diag tools can adjust mileage 3) my understanding is that the "guidelines" are that it can only be done once, prior to the first delivery/titled sale, and if the car has less than 500 miles, is documented, and the typical reason is that the miles were for pre-delivery testing/diagnosis- AND, when turned back, it resets to ZERO....you cannot enter a pre-specified number.

Every transaction done on the DEIS (or PIWIS, or....) should tie to the VIN, the tech, date/time and is captured by the factory.

So, within that there is probably plenty of wiggle room for some to re-engineer things and violate some rules. I can't see +/- 500 miles shifting a LaFerrari sale price, but I guess if someone wanted a "delivery miles" car, they'd pay but I guess I don't think that way. (of course, if your service records show 1200 miles and your odometer is flipped to zero, it invents you to put 1200 miles on the car before it gets checked again...

My PERSONAL view is that Ferrari (or Porsche, BMW, Audi, Ford) have little to gain and lots to use and know the law. I could imagine some scheming owner and some misguided tech working around the edges; frankly, I could see my way to a few dealerships doing it. However, will be interesting to see how the FACTS emerge, since all we have right now is some allegations.

 

This "Jalopnik" cry wolf story went nowhere fast.

That hissing sound you hear is air rapidly coming out of the balloon.

 

The way it looks is the guy was in a pissing contest with his employer who fired him. He may be the nicest guy on earth and an honest salesmen. maybe he was fired to put in the bosses' mistress. Can't tell from what we know.

What is clear is that anyone can sue for anything without any evidence, that is what the process discovers. Obviously his lawyer piled on anything that could embarrass / hurt / worry the other side - good practice. Maybe they are more likely to settle if they risk some bad publicity from the allegations alone. Its like no wife ever alleged her husband was abusive / violent to her / the children for a divorce trial advantage.

If you read the record in a persons divorce to judge his character, you don;t know what you are doing.

 

Agree, but like anything these days, once it hits social media it's permanent, and it's true to those viewing it that way. Later corrections can help, but not everyone gets the word.



Jim

 

Many tools out there can do mileage not just dealer

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

Indeed, some crafty tools out there indeed. Just google enigmatool, DP4, diagprog, abrites

CF

 

Quite frankly, firing someone who knew his job to put in a floozy who doesn't know crap about cars is enough to make me never do business with them. And apparently, others as well as they canceled orders. When I'm spending that much money, I expect my salesperson to know the product and the process better than I do.