Cold Start Issue - M2.7 (1995) - SURVEY | Page 2 | FerrariChat
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Cold Start Issue - M2.7 (1995) - SURVEY

Discussion in '348/355' started by FourthAlfa, Mar 15, 2017.

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  1. DaisyCutter

    DaisyCutter Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2014
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    Dayan
    #26 DaisyCutter, Mar 16, 2017
    Mine is a late '95 build. Started it for the first time in 4 months and it fired after 4-5 cranks. Seemed a little tardy compared to when it is regularly driven, but that could also be down to a potentially slightly less than fully charged battery.

    I usually set the ignition to on for 5 seconds or so before I turn it over. Old habits.
     
  2. ClydeM

    ClydeM F1 World Champ
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    #27 ClydeM, Mar 16, 2017
    I have a 95 here in NNJ. the garage is about 65 degrees. If I follow the above procedure, She fires right up & I also get the added benefit that the ABS & Brake lights don't stay lit or go on as frequently.

    She's always on a battery tender when parked for > 3 weeks

    If I rush & crank her right away, I may have a starting issue.
     
  3. ClydeM

    ClydeM F1 World Champ
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    #28 ClydeM, Mar 16, 2017
    Ok, I admit it, I cried at that picture above. It's almost like looking at a best friend in front of you with their stomach cut and their guts splayed and falling from their hands. They are staring at you eye-to-eye and you both know - there is no hope.

    I suppose the picture is appropriate for "The ides of March", but still....et tu Brute?
     
  4. cuneo

    cuneo Formula 3
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    #29 cuneo, Mar 16, 2017
    Wow, that's insane! gives me anxiety looking at that.
     
  5. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 14, 2011
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    SoCal LA/OC/New Mexico
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    Tim Dee
    #30 SoCal1, Mar 16, 2017


    Whats really strange this is what I do to relax, like folks do crossword puzzles

    ADD can be fun fun fun :)
     
  6. FourthAlfa

    FourthAlfa Karting
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    May 15, 2015
    184
    Paris, France
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    Andrew Love
    #31 FourthAlfa, Mar 16, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks for the great feedback so far. Initial feedback seems that the Europeans are a bit less affected that the US guys, will be interested to get a few more data points.
    Thanks also for the suggestions, I should specify what I have done so far to troubleshoot, in order to shed some light on some of the ideas of what the pumps are doing in the ignition position etc.
    Background : I’ve replaced the fuel filters and I’ve taken the injectors out and had them cleaned. Although they were “dripping”, the cleaning did not help the cold restart problem (did noticeably improved top end performance though!)
    I’ve monitored the fuel pressure at the filters (pre-regulator) during the entire start sequence. I’ll upload the video of the whole sequence, in the meantime let me explain the sequence:
    (Pressures measured at the 2 x Schraeder valves on top of filter)
    1. Car off for >2 weeks: P(left)=0, P(right)=0 (might have been discharged by connecting pressure gauge)
    2. Ignition on: P(left)=10psi , P(right)=10psi (quick rise and very stable, like a valve was just opened, pumps do not appear to be on)
    3. Engine Cranking : P(left)=58psi , P(right)=58psi (both rise to 58 immediately as cranking starts, needle on pressure gauge jiggles, pumps obviously on)
    4. Fires, but quits, key still in RUN position : P(left)=54psi , P(right)=53psi (needle stable suggesting pumps now off)
    5. Ignition OFF then ON : P(left)=54psi , P(right)=53psi (pressure does not drop)
    6. Cranking : P(left)=58psi , P(right)=58psi (same as step 3)
    7. Engine starts : P(left)=56psi , P(right)=56psi

    Regarding the pressure leakdown, I measured if for about 18hours after shutting the car off. Nothing strange, both side leakdown at the same rate, suggesting that nothing is wrong (graph below). Hopefully this clarifies
    I'm intrigued by the comment from Bobzdar about resetting the computer (again a specific thing to a '95 I think, letting it run for 10 min after battery disconnect…). Easy enough to try so I'll give this a shot too.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  7. jimmym

    jimmym Formula 3

    Sep 30, 2008
    1,993
    Northeast U.S.
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    #32 jimmym, Mar 16, 2017
    Early 1995. Build date Sept 94. Starts after the second round of starter cranking. This is if the car has sat for a period. After the car has been run it starts normally.
     
  8. FourthAlfa

    FourthAlfa Karting
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    #33 FourthAlfa, Mar 16, 2017
    @jjtjr and @yassa, what region are you guys in?
     
  9. jjtjr

    jjtjr Formula Junior

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    #34 jjtjr, Mar 16, 2017
    new england
     
  10. andyw355

    andyw355 Karting

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    #35 andyw355, Mar 18, 2017


    Exact same thing. 1995 355B in Australia.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. MAD828

    MAD828 F1 Rookie

    Oct 8, 2011
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    #36 MAD828, Mar 18, 2017
    Mine is the same too. 1995 GTS
     
  12. FourthAlfa

    FourthAlfa Karting
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    #37 FourthAlfa, Mar 18, 2017
    @andyw355 and @MAD828, I presume no ethananol in your fuel?

    Thanks
     
  13. MAD828

    MAD828 F1 Rookie

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    #38 MAD828, Mar 18, 2017
    I use 98 octane fuel - normally Shell V Power. Most fuels will contains % of ethanol not sure how much this would have but 98 octane is the most expensive and readily available pump fuel we have in Australia.
     
  14. FourthAlfa

    FourthAlfa Karting
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    #39 FourthAlfa, Apr 17, 2017
    Well I tried the battery disconnect / re-connect, this time letting the car idle for 10 min or so afterwards until the fans came on. Lo and behold, my car starts first time now. I have to admit I never let the car idle till the fans came on before (after reconnecting the battery), but it certainly appears that this has some impact.
    Does anyone know what map / trims the ECUs are adjusting during this re-learning process?
    Has anyone done the 10 min idle (after ECU RESET) and still have the problem persist?
     
  15. F355Bob

    F355Bob Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    2,001
    Madison, Wisconsin
    #40 F355Bob, Apr 18, 2017
    I have done the reset many times and still have the issue. In my car it is air temp related. If air temp above about. 70 degrees, starts first time, if below 70 starts second time, so I think it has to do with the cold start fuel trims.
     
  16. DouglasNg

    DouglasNg Formula 3

    Jun 6, 2004
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    #41 DouglasNg, Apr 18, 2017
    95 GTB in Singapore too. Starts perfect 2nd time.

    Any conclusive data here so far?
     
  17. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    #42 taz355, Apr 18, 2017
    Do you usually wait for the transmission light to go off because if you do then you are giving the fuel system the time it needs to pressurise.
     
  18. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 World Champ
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    #43 308 GTB, Apr 18, 2017
    Same here. Mine is also a September 1994 build.
     
  19. brendon0

    brendon0 Formula Junior

    Dec 13, 2003
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    #44 brendon0, Apr 18, 2017
    95 - owned it 10 years - starts on first crank every time.
     
  20. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    #45 johnk..., Apr 19, 2017
    Just recently took my 95 out of storage. So far, starts first crank every time.
     
  21. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 World Champ
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    #46 308 GTB, Apr 19, 2017
    I was told that this was common behavior for dual-fuel pump F355s.
     
  22. brendon0

    brendon0 Formula Junior

    Dec 13, 2003
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    #47 brendon0, Apr 19, 2017
    I dont have the starting issue. Mine has a single fuel filter so not sure om number of
    Pumps.

    When I energize thr car, fuel pump comes on and stays on until i shut if off, fyi.
     
  23. andyw355

    andyw355 Karting

    Jul 5, 2011
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    #48 andyw355, Apr 20, 2017


    Same.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  24. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    #49 Dave rocks, Apr 20, 2017
    There is your answer :)
     
  25. andyw355

    andyw355 Karting

    Jul 5, 2011
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    Australia
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    Andy
    #50 andyw355, Apr 20, 2017
    Single fuel pump and filter. Suspect leaking FPR's. but sometimes it does start first crank attempt (takes 3 or 4 seconds and doesn't start strongly unlike a warm start which is immediate).


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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