How can you not be familiar with Pagani?! Look at side profile of LaF in particular starting from front fenders and back and look at 720s.
Gallardo, wtf Spider, credibility just went out the window But seriously very trashy and juvenile looking car.
I think the Gallardo is still quite moden aside from the rear taillights. LP560 still looks great on the road IMO.
+1. Never has there been better comments relating to what makes a great car/motorbike on this site. This is why many modern cars just don't do anything for me as they have gone out of their way to cater for the 99% of human beings that are not car enthusiasts but do have money and are potential purchasers. Pete
I think this is unfair to the modern car. Sure the modem car has been engineered to be more comfortable, accommodating, safe and tech enabled but I've not found them to be less engaging. Having more grip, better downforce, smoother shifts, better brakes and a host of other advances has enhanced my level of enjoyment. This doesn't mean I don't enjoy the more analog experience of older cars (I own 3), they're just different. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
come on, I think it holds up better than comparable 360 from same time. 360 looks very dated and Gallardo still seems modern. im not a lover of the huracan coupes intake at the c pillar. 812 has same thing and I don't like it there either. regardless, Gallardo was a big step for lambo at the time and I still like its looks. (drives like crap but that's another story)
This is where McLaren get their styling cues. Last I checked the f1 was produced before laF. Anyway, the side of the LaF has a HUGE side intake capable of swallowing small animals. The 720S has none, remember... Anyway all these cars share design elements from each other there's only so much you can do with a supercar. which is what we've been talking about the last too many pages. Now you're getting ferraris that look like vettes and vice versa. so what. Honestly I don't care I just want to drive it. Theres a lot more to a car than this line or that line. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Just to answer your question I am familiar with Pagani in a general sense, seen them at car shows and (kinda-sorta) spoke to horacio once. He gave me a weird look I think I may have insulted his goat or something. But beautiful and stunning cars to say the least. Most my REAL KNOWLEDGE is from youtube. So I consider myself a low-information-voter in that regard
That's a great comparison. Just fotoshop 720 roof to body color or vice versa and tint 1/4 window on 720 and have 'identical cousins'. Would like to get a 458 profile in same color to compare too
Thank you!!!! I keep reading how the F1 is the holy grail of cars and every time I see one I throw up a little in my mouth. Nothing about the car gets me excited. I don't see the appeal of it. Thought I was the only one as I was afraid to say anything cause of the lynch mob mentality. Lol
You can save us both time by not responding to me directly as you are on my ignore list (unfortunately this site is not smart enough it still notifies me anyway maybe that's why they created another one). The reason is you have not provided anything constructive or meaningful to anything other than you hate this abd that without any reasonable explanation. I always give ppl the benefit of the doubt but when you have multiple doubts and start quoting ppl that are also on my ignore list then you are dead to me. At least folks like mayor have real interesting constructive criticism but you simply do not.
Looking at the list of cars you own, they are all analog. There is a difference between Tech which gives say more balanced handlign, great brakes and more reliable power and tech like eps, paddles, turbo motors, intrusive TC, esc, etc which isolate you from the experience.
Ah, did the F1 comment hurt the feelings. Sensitive much? Car forum = comments/opinions. Get over it. F1 IS hideous IMHO.
If this is true I can tell you from first-hand experience McLaren has broken the mold with the 720S. While definitely being faster it is also WAY more interesting to drive and, in my opinion, way more pleasing stylistically than its predecessor. In fact I believe McLaren has been trending in this direction since the first car they did after the 12C, which was the P1, and every car since. The 570S is something I can only describe as "delicious" when you apply steering, throttle and brake inputs and has a beautiful cockpit that feels hand-styled and built for purpose. I wasn't always a fan of the minimalist steering where (zero buttons on a McLaren wheel except for the two on the P1 for DRS and IPAS) but it really does make the car feel more like a proper sports car and gives you a feeling of focused control when you're at the wheel. Oddly enough the folding dashboard in the 720S, which I thought was a gimmick before I drove the car, does the same thing and really helps intensify your relationship with the car when you're driving. There are so many cool things I could gush for hours about in the 720S but my point is that McLaren seems to be going in a unique path of improving driver involvement, and more importantly ENJOYMENT, which each new model they bring out. In the areas of steering, road feel, and responsiveness it's like they're using modern technology to bring back the very best of what we love about older sports cars (I have a 1960 Mercedes 300SL) but minus the parts that we could do without.
Who knows--too many choices. My comment was on that car. I've just never liked it. No big deal at the end of the day.
Mark: if it true that you say they are working towards driver "enjoyment" then I give the kudos. That's what we want and it's not just from McLaren we want it.
" it's like they're using modern technology to bring back the very best of what we love about older sports cars (I have a 1960 Mercedes 300SL) but minus the parts that we could do without." This hopefully is the way all moderns should be done. The 570's I would describe as a big improvement over the mp12 I drove. Delicious is taking it a bit far. Delicious is the steering on a Renault R5 turbo 2, or a lotus elise. For a modern a 997 Gt3 steering was delicious and Carerra Gt Ok. Also what makes the 570 seems to be the scraping of the weird suspension for somehting conventional. Frankly on my two Mp12 drives I thought the suspesion even in the most performance mode was still isolating and in road modes was floaty and isolated almost everything, the car never felt buttoned down and live. The 570 though still cant get away from the turbo motor, which lets say on the positive makes lots of power, its sound is still really just blare and there is no way it can compete with a NA motor for response or consistency. Cant comment on the way a P1 drives only ever saw one never rode in it. Personaly I think the electric part of the P1 is tech for its own sake, same can be leveled against the Laf and 918. A P1 without the electrics for a 675 price now we are talking. That to me would be a keeper and in line with the purity of the F1. The Mclaren cockpits imo have been vast improvements over ferrari which is really just ersatz F1 gimicky. The way Mclren lays out the cockpit, the fact you sit close to the centerline, the whole minimalist feel, thats all serious stuff and appealing. I thought the two Mclarens I drove p12 and 570 had superlative brake feel, and wished the control directness and precision of the rest of the cars matched that. The 720 doors are groovy, whatever the aero benefits of the front end, it makes the car look awkward, Pagani always incorporates good asthtics into his cars for a reason. If I can fault the modern Mclarens conceptualy it was Ron Dennis obsession with objective performance measure, which is all that counts in race car, and missing so much of what makes an enjoyable road car, and a suepercar so special. That the 570 was vast improvement was almost accidental, the lower suspension and tire spec confered a feel the others lacked. Maybe they really have built in the subjective to the new cars(drive and style), first glance at styling does not indicate this is a whole approach, and as others say Mclaren is all about tech leadership and numbers, so this may not be good for subjective driving feel either. But lets give them the benefit of the doubt for now. When we drive a sports car, the feel and precison of controls, their directness and sense they give of the machine being a direct extension of our body and the feedback of the cotrolls and chassis which you can feel in a living machine all a round you, inclding through the seat your hands feet etc, this is whats lost on the objective perfomance moderns. Perhaps the rot srarted with electronics running chassis and power. In the old days when a car was approachign the limit you could feel the sterign going light, or feel the rear through the chaisis. Now what do you feel, well the electronics feels it and steps in, so the comunication from car to driver no longer seems necssary and is built out to chase some metric. But the joy of experiencing the living machine, the immersive experience of it is lost, and that is a big part of what seprates a sportscar from a 650hp amg mercdes. Take an older ferrari, its fun just driving down the road in 3rd rolling on and off the throttle no only experiecing the acceleration but hearing the motor sing and feeling the whole machine as an extension of you. The machine asks and needs you to meld with it, its designed by humans who did that exact same thing. Now moderns the machine says dont worry no need to talk because I'll take care of all the details you just dial in velocity and direction. Moderns do however offer reliability, things like ac that work, liveable cockpits an abundance of power, great brakes and chasis that avoid the quirks of their predecessors, meaning they offer so much more potenial, too bad that potential comes at such a price, and imo but for objective obession, poor conceptualization and lazyness that potential need not come at price. A miata is a graet example of how it could be done. Its thoughroughly modern classic british roadster or lotus elan. Like an old brit car or elan it steers great, brakes great, is inspirational to drive sounds great, the controls have wonderful fuidity and evn the shifter feels liek a joy, plus it sounds really nice and sings to you, liek cars of old. Unlike its predecessors parts dont fall off it always starts will go 100k, the motor is right there, the top works, it has AC and stereo, it can be used to go places and its metrics are way higher than the past. It did not however loose feel or driving enjoyment because the designers had these as proirities and benchmarked. Here's hoping Mclaren Benchmarks and prioritises what made an F1 so great, while still being modern. Or to use your words " it's like they're using modern technology to bring back the very best of what we love about older sports cars but minus the parts that we could do without."
The guy shown here with the 720S they lent me is the head of development for McLaren Automotive and, in the 5 hour drive we embarked on right after I took this photo, we talked a lot about how they're constantly working toward improving driver enjoyment in their new cars and you could really feel it with your seat in the saddle, your hands on the wheel and your foot on the throttle. I think if you drove their latest cars; 570S, 675LT and then 720S you'd absolutely feel it too. This is why I think they have such a bright future. Image Unavailable, Please Login
It seems to me the German Marques are the ones moving away from driver involvement/enjoyment. Bmw with idrive,run flats, variable ratio steering, etc, seemed to answer questions no one asked...
