Modern Electrical Fans for the 308

This is truely scary stuff. Is there any ryme or reason to suggest when a valve head may depart.

Are you generally safe reving to red line untill 10-20-30-40K miles, or is it years, 10, 20, 30???

If you drove it like you love it, (not stold it), that is shifting at 7 k when it is properly warmed up, can you forestall the grenade???

For Sure, it is going to be big bucks, either way: repair the damage, (possibly at an inconvenient time, financial or calendar), Or, it is going to be expensive to pull the heads and have them done, primarily because of the as long as's...you know,
As long as the head is off and we are doing the valves, why not do bigger intakes and get the head flowed..

which leads to ...well, what about the cams???

Ah Hell, let's go to 10.5 pistons and really wake this puppy up...which is an engine out...

here we go...jet hot the headers...new clustch, overhaul the starter and alt, don't forget the water pump...How about the Forze big pump, it's only a few bucks more and ought to last forever...20 k later, (and maybe a marriage) a couple of years and not being able to drive it YET....

Sorry for the hijack, I'll repost this in a new thread.

best,
chris

 

The pitch of the fan blade increased at some point during the 308 production to increase air flow and thus improve cooling...

 

Has anybody else noted the huge amount of air that flows over the top of the radiator with big fans, (12 inch). Mine stick up a couple of inches over the top of the condenser and a lot of air escapes that could otherwise be directied through the condenser and radiator.

I am thinking about a sheet metal shroud to contain and direct the air through not over the radiator.

any thoughts on fabrication or efficiency??

thanks,
chris

 

I agree..while I'm certain that higher flow fans will lower coolant temp., it does not correct the problem that is causing the engine to overheat. Ferrari's are not known to run hot when running properly. In fact, a good running Ferrari engine actually runs cooler than the engines of most other marques... my 2006 BMW M5 runs a higher coolant and oil temp than my 1982 BB512i. A few years ago when my BB512i started running a little hotter than normal ... 100c in summer traffic ... it turned out to be poor performing alternators were putting out too little current to run the cooling fans at full speed ... once I had both alternators rebuilt for about $250, the fan speed increased and the coolant temp went down to the previous 85c to 90c in the hottest bumper to bumper Atlanta traffic ..there are a plethora of problems that can cause an engine to run hot that have nothing to do with the radiator/fans/thermostat/sensor and other things one would suspect at first ... it could be something simple and inexpensive like my poor performing alternators or something more serious like bad head gasket, crank bearings and more... if you just install a higher volume fan without finding out what is causing the problem first...you are merely treating the symptoms... like treating prostate cancer with Viagra

 

Fans, valves, Valves, fans, I'm confuse
Maybe it's the fans that causes the valves to break or vise versa

 

Digging up an old (but helpful) thread that I saw in the parts cross-reference thread.

I decided to go with the Mr Gasket fans that were recommended earlier in this thread. After pulling half of the front end apart I finally got them mounted. The car has been sitting for a week while I get time to put all the other stuff back together.

I went out today to start putting it all back together and noticed there is coolant leaking, apparently from where I stabbed it with one of the zip-tie mounting straps. The two on the top, passenger side were a little tight getting through but I didn't think there was any way I could poke a hole in the core!! I guess that plastic and my hands are tougher than I thought.

Now I need to pull the radiator and see if I can get it fixed or start looking for a new one. Has anyone found an after-market radiator that will fit in the stock location?

I'm also thinking I'll fab up a shroud instead of trying the zip ties again!!

Thanks,
John

 

Back to the fan issue, I installed a single modern 12" pusher fan and have had no overheating problems whatsoever, even while on the track. Years ago, it was popular to put an extra fan on Etypes Jaguars - cars notorious for overheating. And while they helped in stop and go traffic, they hindered cooling once the car was moving. The extra fan simply blocked air flow. I question why 2 12" fans are required for the 308.

 

When I first came to Las Vegas I hesitated to drive in traffic in the summer because of high water temperatures. When I had my major service done last August I replaced one of the fan motors and had the radiator gone through as well as the rest of the cooling system, including replacing the radiator cap. Since then I can drive in the heat without worrying about going much over 195 with the A/C running standing in traffic. Are the fans compensating for another problem. I remember being told by the dealer when I bought my car back in 1989 that the 308 was sensitive to what radiator cap was used and not to try to get by with a cheap replacement.

 

9 years later and I too have always had issues with the cooling on my 308. After reading this thread I finally decided to do something about it. And it worked. I elected to go the route that silvergts did in post #16 and built the 3" tube mounts exactly like he did. It was a very tight fit with 2 side by side 12" Hayden fans and I had to take off the hood, bumper and front grill to slip the fans in front of the condensor with the small L brackets attached. The 3" exhaust pipe tube was cheap- 7 at O'reilly's, and the fans were 60 each. Electrical connections are simple and reuse the existing wiring and connectors. The beauty of silverGTS design is that the 3" tubes mate right to the existing heavy steel straps mounts used for the OEM Lucas fans which really don't move much air at all. This will make the die-hards happy as reinstalling the OEM fans can easily be done (not that anyone would do it after seeing the Haydens in action). The 2 Haydens deliver probably 3-4 times as much air or more than the OEM Lucas fans. No point in showing pictures because my pictures are identical to silvergts' post #16 showing all fans installed along with the component pieces he and I used. Elegant design really but tight to install. Once installed the mounts are rock solid and the fan shrouds fit approx 1/4 " away from the AC condensor, not on it.

But I did not stop there as from reading a few other posts it became clear I needed to do some more things

1) installed the two bands of foam on the underside of the hood. Can't stress how important these two bands are along with "chinking" the gap to either side of the radiator to the metal side pieces with foam. I used 1" thick neoprene foam rubber for each band and 3M heavy duty spray adhesive- fits perfectly and with the Haydens running you know why you need to do this- the foam forces fan driven air (and ram air once underway) through the radiator and out the vents behind the headlights- the air really comes out of these two vents now.

2) My fans would never come on reliably- so I installed a manual override in the cockpit. Just a switch connected by new wiring to both sides of the fan control switch threaded into the bottom of the radiator facing aft on the passenger side.

3) Wanted the fans to work automatically and followed the posts on crossover parts to get a replacement. The following parts numbers are listed in the parts crossover thread but they are incorrectly labeled as VW part numbers. They are not, but they are Wahler (German aftermarket parts manuf.) parts numbers for VW Rabbits and Golf and Fox and Audis etc of the 1979 -1982 or so era.

I bought 1 of the so-called 180 degree Wahler fan switches and found that it never turned the fans on in the car until the temp gauge reached about 195 degrees F or so- really a bit too late for me in hot Houston. Ordered two more of the same Wahler switches and tested them on the stove in a small pot with an ohmmeter and candy thermometer. Found out that ALL three 180 degree F fan switches (marked as 82 degrees C- same thing) did not actually trip the internal switch until water temp reached, you guessed it 195 degrees F. Next bought the Wahler 160 degree F fan switches and tested them on the stove and found that they actually tripped at 180 degrees F- just what I was looking for- they shut off at about 155 or 160 degrees F. Just installed it in the car today- 85 degrees in Houston today and worked perfectly during and after some spirited driving- the new Hayden fans really blow a lot of air and come on at exactly the right time. They seem to go off at the right time as well- when car idling the fans cycle on and off just like a modern car. And temp stayed at about 180-185 degrees F- never got close to the 195 degrees F that the car always would before the above mods/reinstallation of missing foam.

Here are the WAHLER part numbers and what they actually do just so everyone is clear

180 degree F (measured actual trip 195 degree F) Wahler PN# 82395948182
160 degree F (measured actual trip 180 degree F) Wahler PN# 82395948172


4) Sean F in his AC thread correctly diagnosed a problem with the cooling air exit flow in the 2 Valve cars with only the vents behind the headlights. He suggested that the 24" wide x 12" deep aluminum cover panel covering the steering rack and bottom of the battery box area needed to be opened up and vent slots cut into it. Not wishing to tear into an original part I fabbed up a matching panel using the existing as a template and cut approx 10 one inch wide fore and aft facing slots into the new panel and then reattached it to the car. When the fans come on (or I turn them on with my manual switch) air now comes out of both headlight vents and out the bottom panel slots.

5) Did not change it but am pretty sure that my water T-stat in the housing on top of the engine is the stock 195 degree F model.

With all of these mods (and no damage to the original car or its mounts or pieces) the car really cools very well both at speed and at prolonged idle with fans cycling on and off. The silverGTS design is really very slick and elegant in its reuse of all existing parts of the OEM fan mounting system.

If you are having trouble getting your car to cool properly- try all of the above and see what great results you get.

 

Dandy Don,
Thanks for the update and your comments. My modification was done so a future owner could reinstall OEM equipment when showing the car.

Your additional modifications make a lot of sense. If available, would you please post photos of foam band locations and the 24"x12" panel with cutouts?

 

silvergts Will post pics this weekend when I get back home. Again nice, ingenious really, fan mount design. These ought to be installed in every 308 as the starting point for curing cooling issues. The vents behind the headlights move so much hot air now that the individual blades at each vent are really hot to the touch.

 

Here are pics of the new black 1" thick neoprene strips that I glued to the underside of the hood. Also pics of the "chinking" of the gaps between the side of the radiator and the internal body side panels. Details are important here- note the foam cut and installed around the two AC condensor pipes on passenger side of car. Lastly, see the pics of the vertical 1" slots in the aluminum cover panel under the steering rack.

When the fans come on air flows out of both vents/grilles behind the headlights and also through the slots in the cover panel underneath.

These mods have radically changed how well the car cools. Will give feedback from real hot weather operation here in Houston this summer.

DD
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Thanks. Very helpful.

 

I did my AC fan went from the stock to 1200 CFM big diff in trafic better cooling all around
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Hi Don, my name is Stephen and I believe I am looking at purchasing your Ferrari from a dealer in California. It looks like you put many years of loving care into this car and I wondered if you would mind chatting with me about it. Thanks

 

I think you will receive a faster response by clicking on Don's profile and either (or both) email and private message him, rather than expect him to find this thread and your message here on a thread he last posted over 9 months ago.

 

Thanks for the tip, I did send him a private message in addition to this post. I didn't see an option to email him though, I'll check that out again. Thanks

 

Email may not be an option, it depends on the privacy settings of the user.

 

Hopefully not already addressed here, but my ‘84 QV had big improvements with 1.) water wetter additive, and 2.) refurbished original radiator. Instead of 210-220 in summer traffic, now 195 at most, and 185 in normal conditions.

Regarding the fan airflow escaping, isn’t there a foam seal on the bonnet above the radiator?


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