Auto Elite NJ Service Nightmare

It took me some time to clear my head, but its time I tell my story.
In May of 2014 I brought my 1993 Mondial t Valeo to Auto Elite in Tenafly NJ to have an engine out major service performed. I advised the mechanic/owner that I wanted the car to be thoroughly serviced in response to his conservative approach method. I expressed my concerns of the water pump, tensioners and clutch, in addition to the obvious timing belt change, based on what little knowledge I had amassed at the time. I was assured that everything that needed to be done would be, with full attention to detail, as well as what was in the best interest of my wallet.
Two months later my car was ready and I was literally jumping for joy. I was told that the clutch needed to be replaced, the tensioners were replaced as part of the major, but the water pump was fine. I didn’t like that response, but what do I know? I was a 29 year old kid at the time talking to an expert mechanic with decades of experience under his belt. I accepted his word, paid my $12k tab which included additional incidentals like refinishing the sticky interior and went on my way.
As soon as I got in the car, the check engine light came on. The revs would raise 2-300rpms and the check engine light would come on briefly then go out. It felt like a misfire. I went back inside and was assured it was not a big deal and to take the car. It was a Ferrari tick that would work itself out after some driving. Optimistic once again, I took the car and drove about 2 miles when the clutch would engage and neutralize the car. Imagine driving 25-30 mph with the accelerator depressed and all of a sudden I’m in neutral; sending the rpms into the 4-5k range. My car is a Valeo, so the clutch is operated by an actuator, not by me manually depressing a clutch pedal. This was clearly something electronic in nature. I immediately brought the car back and asked that it be fixed.
I was called a few days later and told that the check engine light was the result of a faulty phase sensor ($600 incl labor) and that the clutch issue has been remedied. I wasn’t thrilled about the $600 after spending $12k, but I went to get my car and hopefully put this all behind me. I pay, and I drove off, and 1 mile down the road, the same two problems occur. I drive the car back and get a song and dance that the problems will again work themselves out. This was a Saturday and I was told to take the car for the weekend and enjoy it; if the problem persists bring it back next week. When I got home, I decided to try and replace both original Bosch coils with two inexpensive replacements purchased from Porphy on F-Chat. This immediately fixed the misfire/check engine light. Awesome! Maybe I was onto something!
The clutch issue persisted and I had no choice but to bring the car back the following week. The car was there for a while, but I was told it was fixed at no charge to me, even though they spent 30+ hours working on it. Great news! My $12k service afforded me some good will diagnostic labor! Guess what happened after I picked the car up and drove a few miles down the road? Yeah, same problem! Now the Valeo parts brochure was opened and part names and prices were getting thrown around. You need a potentiometer and it costs $3126! But, it can also be the actuator which costs $7000!
At that point I had enough. I sourced a potentiometer and had it installed at Wide World Ferrari and the parameters reset, but the problem persisted. During my rants and raves, a shop from Ohio reached out to me and offered to fix the car. I sent the car there and they were able to fix it and send it home. This cost me several thousand dollars between shipping and diagnostic troubleshooting, but guess what? No parts were needed!
Fast forward to the fall of 2015 and I noticed a large puddle of antifreeze on my garage floor and upon looking underneath the car, significant oil leaks. My worst fears appeared to be coming true! I sent the car back to the shop in Ohio that had earned my trust and was advised that another engine out service was in order!
While the engine was out in Ohio the following items were discovered as a result of the work performed a year and a half prior by Auto Elite.
• The timing belt had a date code of 2004. -04284012 (Please tell me a new 10 year old belt is OK or was it ever changed at all?)
• Both fuel line connections at the fuel filters were cracked. The car had a strong fuel smell after the major service. They were likely over torqued and ignored.
• The fuel filters appeared to be used and very old. They did not look like year old filters.
• The union to the A/C compressor was broken and soldered.
• The rear driver side shock gear for the adjustable suspension was split in two pieces when the actuator was removed.
• The water pump seal was not replaced.
• The engine was dirty and incorrect acorn nuts were used on the valve covers. (The car has never been driven in inclement weather during my ownership.)
• There was no sealant between the cam seals and O-rings.
• The power steering belt was too wide and riding over the edge, ready to fail.

So why now am I shedding light on this service nightmare? I have seen a lot of maintenance related threads posted of late. I feel that my experience can be helpful to anyone that owns or is considering owning a Ferrari. The point is that these cars are as good as who services them. Make sure you do your homework and due diligence before you listen to a friend that says “I know a guy.” I believe that I, and anyone going through something similar would be hard pressed to find a judge to empathize with a Ferrari owner.

 

mondial valeo is the first problem, sounds like you need a new car!
(kidding)

seriously you sound upset , but Vicenzo latino has serviced many high end Ferraris for me
without any problem . likewise peers of mine who collections are in a whole different
level than mine, all very happy..

i can only say after 20 years i have never heard a bad word said up to this point ,, the fact that wide world had trouble as well my say something about the situation ..

i am sure you love your Ferrari but sometimes things are not always someones fault
hopefully it drives great and you can enjoy it

ciao

 

I don't know anything about the entity named in the above post, but I 100% agree with the conclusion of ensuring that you have a trustworthy, reliable, and experienced mechanic who knows these cars. Cannot be overstated I don't think; a bit of carelessness on these cars can result in enormous bills later that doesn't occur with with other cars.

 

I am aware of his accolade, which is why I entrusted him to do my service. If I sound upset, I still am, three years later. Everything I said above is 100% factual, and although I am glad you and your peers have had positive experiences, I did not.

This isn't an angry rant made after leaving the shop without having time to resolve the issue or think about it. I allowed ample opportunities to fix the first two issues and obviously the following issues came at a later date after the bridge had been burned.

Maybe you have to be his friend to get good service? Maybe I seemed aloof and like a young guy that didn't know what he was talking about? I can't justify why I received the service I did, but unfortunately that's what happened.

 

Interested to learn the name of the Ohio shop who did right by you, if you are willing to share.

Thanks - DM

 

wow you sent it to ohio? why not one of the dozen other shops around nyc?

ive only ever heard great things about auto elite.

 

Yes, NJB Automotive

 

In order to properly service the Valeo you need two things:

1. An SD1
2. Knowledge of the Valeo system

As far as I know, there are not too many shops out there that have both.

Auto Elite had the SD1, Mark pronounced the Valeo as "Valero" like the gas station. Maybe that should have been the first sign...

 

To balance this typical "flame the shop post".
The other thing that needs to be addressed in this post is owner expectation. Mechanics are not wizards. You're not going to get a "new car" when you bring it in. You got to keep things in perspective and Ferrari owners (sorry) typically aren't good at that.
My expectation.. I could and can do a clutch job on my 360. My garage won't let me, so I send her to Karl. I a mistake is made during the repair.. is this a mistake that I would have made if I had done the repair? If yes.. then he gets a pass.

There's always one dissatisfied customer. Always. When there's many you start to wonder. Only one.. is it the shop or the owner..?

 

I'm confused by this, you can do a job, but the garage won't let you and if they make the same type of mistake you would make it's not their fault??

Why are you sending it to a professional then?? Why not just do it yourself? What is the benefit of a garage doing it if it's acceptable for them to make the same mistake you're going to?

 

Yeah, I don't get that logic. If someone used that logic on picing a surgeon, I would question their sanity.

 

The condition he stipulated is that he *is* competent to do the job, but decided to pass it on to the pro for other reasons. Being competent, if he would have made the same mistake, then the pro gets a pass. In other words, competency doesn't assume omniscience, X-ray eyes, etc.

 

what was the outcome of the legal case from three years ago? I assume it's concluded now.

 

Can you scan a PDF of your court order that backs that up?

 

Thank you. For clarifying this.

I can do the job if I want.. but I'm going to get it to my mechanic.

If he did the clutch repair and broke a part or didn't tighten a hose lets say (happened when my belts were replaced by my mechanic) I'd understand. I would have made the same mistake myself.

In the case of the leaky hose (real life example).. it was a clamp that needed to be tightened, so I took off the underbody panel and tightened it. No more drip of coolant. I still take my car to Karl and don't post bad things about him on forums. He's not perfect. Nobody is.

Just interesting that the said car was for sale earlier this year. I wonder if this is being posted after the sale...

 

No, this was only an assumption. This was never brought to court.

The first two issues; the misfire and Valeo-related issues were immediate. The issues requiring a second engine out major were discovered over a year later. Once the second major was performed, the additional issues mentioned above were discovered.

 

Are you comparing a leaking hose to the negligence listed above? Could I have done an engine out major service myself? Maybe, if I read the shop manual and had a lot of free time on my hands. I've serviced some Hondas back in the day as a hobby and never encountered any of the issues I had with my Ferrari. But, what do we pay the experts for? Their knowledge and expertise, as well as their integrity one would think.

Does your mechanic install 10 year old timing belts when you have a major service performed?

The car is still for sale. Since this nightmare occurred, all issues have been addressed and a second engine out major was performed, to my satisfaction, as mentioned above. If you are interested in the car, we can go over the particulars.

 

Sadly the Valeo system was a bit problematic from new, so I'm not surprised that a non Factor Ferrari shop was not able to fix it well... however they should tell you that up front.

NJB are good folks.... with Ferrari's once you find a mechanic that you trust ... its as good as gold. Having been in this guys shoes my self before... your dream can turn into a nightmare very quickly with repairs.

 

Valeo systems are not complex or problematic. I can't find an owner of one or a mechanic that works on them that finds them complex or problematic. The perception that they are problematic is based techs who have no idea what they are or how they work trying to calibrate them. For example, you must have an SD1 to calibrate the system. How many shops have one? Not many Ferrari trained mechanics have ever seen one, let alone received training on them. Many will assume that its no different than any F1 system and that's when problems arise.

Valeo aside, lets not forget these additional items that made the engine out service performed worthless:

Leaking water pump and cam seals followed by the discovery of:

• The timing belt had a date code of 2004. -04284012 (Please tell me a new 10 year old belt is OK or was it ever changed at all?)
• Both fuel line connections at the fuel filters were cracked. The car had a strong fuel smell after the major service. They were likely over torqued and ignored.
• The fuel filters appeared to be used and very old. They did not look like year old filters.
• The union to the A/C compressor was broken and soldered.
• The rear driver side shock gear for the adjustable suspension was split in two pieces when the actuator was removed.
• The water pump seal was not replaced.
• The engine was dirty and incorrect acorn nuts were used on the valve covers. (The car has never been driven in inclement weather during my ownership.)
• There was no sealant between the cam seals and O-rings.
• The power steering belt was too wide and riding over the edge, ready to fail.

NJB did the right thing and I expressed my appreciation in another thread some time ago.

 

I appreciate the offer however, I'm not interested in a car Valeo at all. If the system was neither problematic nor complex.. it wouldn't be in Colorado having a capacitor in the valet ECU diagnosed and fixed! If it was that simple and easy to diagnose, it could have been fixed locally. My standard for durability is if Porsche adopts the technology like they did the DCT.

Everyone likes 20/20 hindsight. If my mechanic could only find a new old stock 10 year old belt. He'd install it. What was the condition of the belt when it was removed? Can you provide a pic?

The water pump. Which seal leaked? The one on the pulley or the one at the base? Was one replaced. You stated "I advised the mechanic/owner that I wanted the car to be thoroughly serviced in response to his conservative approach method." Well. He was conservative. You can't fault him for being conservative and not replacing the pump.. and then fault him for not replacing the pump!

We can't note if ANY of these things like the shock actuator are normal wear (were they that way BEFORE the repair was done) or due to the service. You do know that the shock actuators are known to crack and be problematic even on cars that haven't been serviced right?
Why not post the repair bill like others have done? I'm all for appropriate blame... but I've seen where people blame a problem on a mechanic when it would be broken anyway... it is 21 years old. If there aren't that many problems with a repair shop reported here.. they might be decent shop.

 

Sorry, that logic escapes me.

Taking your car to someone who does this all the time for a living - you expect the work to be done correctly without fault. We're not talking, say electrical 'gremlins' of an older Ferrari. But just the basic level of service. So not tightening a hose, or breaking a part - that's not something I'd understand, that's incompetence. It shows carelessness and lack of attention to detail. You're paying for a service, but at the end of the day, if the service isn't completed properly, that's a problem. You can accept mediocrity, but I wouldn't.

If that kind of logic were applied by the FAA and commercial airliners, there'd be a lot more planes falling out of the sky as a result.

No one is perfect - but when I take it to an 'expert', i.e. someone who does this daily for a living (and with some time in business), I expect near perfection - that's what I'm paying for. Otherwise, might as well save the money and do it myself.

 

Kind

Precisely.

And, using vsurgeon's logic; if i can do it myself without making that mistake, then the expert sure as hell better not make that mistake.

 

I know I know.. and then that screw wasn't tightened to the EXACT specification, wait.. and there's a smudge of grease on the valve cover gasket. OMG He's a professional I can't believe that the entire engine wasn't wiped down!
Oh and there's a tiny bit of dirt on the carpet. How dare he not steam clean the carpets after this! And OMG! The mechanic didn't notice that my left fender liner had a crack in it (I brought it in for an oil change) he's a professional and should have noticed this and fixed it.. I pay him enough for the oil change!
I know... no one is perfect. Except when it's "my car". Then the mechanic better restore it to better than new condition. Oh and when they do a good job to the "near perfection" I expect, I'm going to complain about how expensive the repair it. Right? I don't use the term "incompetence" often, because it seems that too many are ready to use it for the smallest reason. And I was once told, when you point a finger, there's three pointing after you.

And as far as the hose that was loose. It could have been tightened and then worked loose when I drove it the first 10 miles. Again I don't fault him at all because I actually work on my own car and I recognize that as a non-issue and something that would likely have happened when I work on my own car. And as Acemaster notes.. I know when it's NOT part of a normal repair.

 

Sorry, your examples are really bad - they're the most basic tenets you'd expect your mechanic to follow. If I bring my car in to have 3 items addressed, they should be addressed. But to find 2 NEW items to address because of carelessness (dirty carpets because he didn't put paper mats down; a scratch in my fender that wasn't there when I dropped it off likely due to carelessness of walking by and bumping car with a tool or..), you damn right I'd complain!

Half the examples you listed would be the result of carelessness. The others incompetence.

I've had 3 Ferraris over my lifetime so far, collectively drove them 100k miles. I've never had any of the examples occur and I serviced them regularly. And frankly, I can't recall bringing a car home with more issues, or having something go wrong quickly (a loose hose? Really?!?!?!).

Add in the 12 other daily drivers, plus the 300k miles I've put on those cars (I drive a lot) and the services I've had, and again, not a single issue like you describe. Do I just get the best mechanics? Am I lucky? No - I've had mechanics and their staff do what's expected of them. Nothing more, nothing less.

Never in my life has this happened - I'd suggest you find a new mechanic.

 

+1. You can't compare a loose hose to a dirty carpet. One of them shows he can't perform his job as a professional, the other just shows he had some dirt on his shoes.

I bring my cars to the pros so that these things don't happen.

vrsurgeon..FWIW this is the only topic I can remember reading that I disagree with you on