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F1-risks-losing-red-bull-over-post-2020-engines

Discussion in 'F1' started by william, Apr 20, 2017.

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  1. 444sp

    444sp Formula Junior

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    #26 444sp, Apr 21, 2017
    You are talking for something similar to LMP1, I like this!!!!
     
  2. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    #27 Ferraripilot, Apr 21, 2017
    I very much agree. Perhaps the only limit would be the number of cylinders allowed as well. Teams would experiment with multi-cylinder engines again due to the advantages in volumetric efficiency offered by same fuel allotment and alternate combustion layouts.
     
  3. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

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    #28 Beau365, Apr 22, 2017
    Yes - inviting them includes incentivising them. F1 needs to mix it up with exciting engine manufacturers and hot competition. F1 should not be an R&D centre for manufacturers of luxury road sedans.
     
  4. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

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    #29 4rePhill, Apr 22, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hmmm....... So what happens if Red Bull threaten to leave unless F1 involves an independent engine manufacturer, and makes the engines cost no more than $10 Million, and Mercedes and Ferrari both threaten to leave if that happens?
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  5. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    #30 Bas, Apr 22, 2017
    Why would Mercedes and Ferrari leave if another manufacturer will make cheaper engines?
     
  6. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

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    #31 bobzdar, Apr 22, 2017
    If it's given parity by the FIA there's no incentive for Ferrari and Mercedes to build their own at 50mil a year, and I don't see Ferrari participating if it's not a Ferrari engine (in anything, let alone f1). If it's not given parity, then fine, but Red Bull will be even worse off, so that's not what they're asking. They want an engine on par with Ferrari and Mercedes and neither of them will sell one to them - I don't think RB care much what it will cost - but while you're asking for the moon you might as well ask it for cheap, I guess.
     
  7. tervuren

    tervuren Formula 3

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    #32 tervuren, Apr 22, 2017
    I believe the second most fans of any team on the grid is Red Bull. Those saying "here is the door" are being extremely foolish.

    Imagine the past few years without the Red Bull drivers out there?
     
  8. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #33 tifosi12, Apr 22, 2017
    Ferrari has more fans than RB and I say the same thing: the sport is bigger than one of the teams
     
  9. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

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    #34 Beau365, Apr 23, 2017
    F1 is part of Ferrari's DNA, they won't leave. Mercedes can exit and concentrate on selling bulky road cars. Toto and Lauda have made plenty of $$ in the last few years so it's been a worthwhile re-visit for Merc.
     
  10. NJB13

    NJB13 Formula 3

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    #35 NJB13, Apr 23, 2017
    If only I had a dollar for every threat some team was going to leave or join F1 ...
     
  11. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

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    #36 4rePhill, Apr 23, 2017
    You cannot bank on Ferrari never leaving F1 because "It's in their DNA".

    GT racing used to be in Ferrari's DNA also, and they left that when the sport no longer suited them.

    The reality is, back in the day (the 50's/60's/70's), the headlines generated from F1 and GT racing used to be Ferrari's only real advertising avenue - success on track sold cars for them.

    Today though, people don't buy Ferrari's because they're an F1 team, and Ferrari's reputation as being one of, if not the most sought after supercar manufacturer is pretty much set in stone. If Ferrari left F1 and went back to GT racing, their sales figures would not suddenly disappear - People would still buy the road cars in their droves!

    If F1 takes a turn that Ferrari do not like, then DNA will not keep them in F1!
     
  12. johngtc

    johngtc Formula Junior
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    #37 johngtc, Apr 23, 2017
    Agree with most of what you say but in the 50s and early 60s Ferrari did not race to sell road cars. Au contraire, they sold cars to pay for Enzo's racing obsession!
     
  13. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #38 william, Apr 23, 2017
    I wholeheartedly agree with that .

    Damned are the teams which try to blackmail F1 !!!
     
  14. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #39 william, Apr 23, 2017
    +1


    Let's not forget that Ferrari's reputation was based on its sports cars success and not F1.

    Wins at Sebring, Le Mans, the Mille Miglia, the Targa Florio, the Nurburgring were heralded all over the world, and helped Ferrari to become a big player in Sports Cars and GT, well before F1 was know.

    In fact, the first US GP was in 1959 (I think), and Ferrari was already established in America by then.

    For many years, Enzo Ferrari gave priority to its sports cars programme over F1, because he could sell sports cars. Selling sports cars was big business at the time.

    Ferrari used to supply many previous year cars to teams like NART, Tony Parravano, John Edgar, the Bear Team, Neuman, John Mecom, etc... but regularly torched the F1 cars at the end of the season, because nobody wanted them!!
     
  15. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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    #40 Mitch Alsup, Apr 23, 2017
    I remember when Ferrari was threatening to pull out about once a year, every year.
     
  16. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #41 william, Apr 23, 2017
    That was Enzo Ferrari when he had colics, and not todays' Scuderia.
     
  17. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

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    #42 Beau365, Apr 23, 2017
    Ferrari have been part of F1 since 1950. If you have a better marketing strategy we are all ears. :)
     
  18. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #43 william, Apr 23, 2017

    F1 has only been popular during the last 2 to 3 decades; before it was relatively unknown worldwide and rarely broadcast. F1 rang second best to endurance for many years, and the cars were slower than the prototypes up to the 70s. In fact, prototypes and CanAm cars were more impressive to watch than F1.

    Sports car racing, in the opposite, which Ferrari participated since the late 40s, was held in many countries, in Europe, in Asia, in North and South America, and the races were famous and attracted the crowds.
    Victories at Le Mans, Sebring, the Panamericana, the Targa Florio or the Mille Miglia meant a lot more than a GP win.

    Ferrari's reputation was built on the Italian roads, in Florida, in Mexico, at Le Mans or the Nurburgring in races that really mattered.

    The problem is that many tifosi and Ferrari fans don't even know the history of Ferrari, and think it all started with Schumacher.
     
  19. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Formula 3

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    #44 Ferris Bueller, Apr 23, 2017
    Liberty Media is too smart to let RedBull walk away.
    The rules will be changed so it's more enjoyable for the fans and better suited for the teams as well.
     
  20. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    #45 GordonC, Apr 23, 2017
    ... including Schumacher. He was never concerned or cared about the history of F1, and was unfamiliar with many of the drivers or with who won what and when. Vettel, on the other hand, is very well learned on F1 history, which is great to see.
     
  21. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

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    #46 Beau365, Apr 24, 2017
    As a single marketing platform there is no bigger or better global competition than F1, even if the actual racing is rather dull on occasion.
     
  22. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #47 william, Apr 24, 2017

    Now maybe, but not in the past when Ferrari was building its reputation.

    Do you know about Ferrari history at least?
     
  23. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

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    #48 Beau365, Apr 24, 2017
    The world of sport was very different before the advent of live tv satellites which were introduced during the early 60's. Participation in local events such as the MM was therefore the most effective way in building up a reputation, before F1 broadcast technology and distribution became available.

    Only started digesting Ferrari history during the early 80's when I began cleaning them for an independent Ferrari specialist at weekends. The Connolly leather aroma was much better then :)
     
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