Ferrari 488 Compared to the McLaren 720s

I have zero Bias, I nearly bought a Mclaren in fact. I likely will some day.

Your clearly didn't watch all the videos I have. As of 6am this am I have seen every video about the car thats been posted that I can find on youtube. Here's just a couple I dug up in the short time I have to reply to you.

Here is an actual Mclaren owner, watch the video he doesn't want one, he more or less says he prefers his 540c:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y7tit8bW4Y

Here is another, and I quote "I was expecting mega performance, which it provided...however, the compromises the car makes to achieve these stats are underwhelming...meaning after the drive, I was very very confused!!":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9Pm6SFEuRA

 

i don't think the Ring is the best indicator of a typical lap time but EVO just published the 991.2 GT3 time and it's 7 minutes 12 seconds VS 488 time of 7 minutes 21 seconds (Sport Auto)

 

It's easy to say you prefer the car you have when the difference in having the other is nearly $200k. Do you honestly think he'd take a 540c over a 720s straight up? Nonsense.

What are the compromises the car makes? Saying it makes compromises to achieve the performance is pretty meaningless if you can't say what they are.

At the end of the day, there is nothing exciting about driving any modern exotic on slow crappy roads like they've all described. It's straight up boring.

Someone mentioned they didn't have the desire to roll down the window in a tunnel. That in itself is stupid because if you have to roll down the window in a tunnel, it means the cars exhaust isn't good enough anyway and it sounds nothing like that in real life. Like, why would you ever roll down the window in a tunnel? It's not how the car really sounds in normal usage.

People have pretty ridiculous expectations theses days imo.

 

He said very bluntly he doesn't want a 720s. It's not that hard to see his honesty. Maybe I pick up on it since Ive followed his videos for years now.

I don't feel bored in my 488 ever, same as I never felt bored in my 458. I did however feel bored in my C7 Z06 UNLESS I was driving it hard. So I can see how someone would feel that way about a car. My Z06 would destroy a 458, yet I sold it for a 458. Car needs to make me feel a certain way for me to enjoy it.

I always roll my window down in tunnels when I am in a car that sounds decent, even in my M3......

 

https://youtu.be/lvSAPVwHvIY


Cars:

2013 Ferrari 458 Spider
2014 Porsche 911 Turbo S Cab

Only 2 that I drive.

 

So many snarky, overly sensitive commentators! Give credit where it is due - the 720 is a monumental step forward for McLaren and truly is a rival for Ferrari. What separates the two is (subjective) preference.

I think the most interesting aspect of it is it's price - it's actually as close to 812S than 488. Perhaps a good strategy by Mcalren, perhaps not. The market is large enough to likely accommodate all 3 and their competitors. Personally though, I'd be asking if the options I'd put into a 720 would just be better spent on an 812...

 

I agree...I give the 720s a lot of credit...I love the looks and performance. Drop dead.

But, i want emotion.

Had a Speciale, and as I've said, I think the 458 is better in some respects, worse in others. Sound being a big plus for the Italia (even if Speciale has upgraded exhaust it doesnt compare).
I dont want a manual transmission car again, no need.
I need to drive an F12 at some point esp as I may get a 812s.

Kudos to McLaren though. I hope it forces Ferrari to make better looking cars (cough cough 812s rear end and 488 side scoopers).

 

That's comparing apples to oranges really. First of all, as you said, the Ring is far from a good yardstick as it is too long and the driver and the conditions make a huge difference. Secondly, the time of the GT3 was set by a factory driver and we all know that their times have nothing to do with the ones that car mags achieve. Thirdly, the Ring is Porsche's back yard. Imagine if one compared the lap times of a Ferrari test driver at Fiorano to a magazine setting a lap time there with another car...

The fact remains that independent tests show the 488 to be a lot quicker than the RS, which should be clearly quicker than the plain GT3.

 

I don't doubt this.

I Just had to add some info that was recently issud about the .2 gt3

 

Seems to be the overall feelings for most people. Ability of the car is unmatched, but has no emotion.
https://youtu.be/Ag3w5jToWGA?t=874

 

This is a simple and inexpensive fix for Mclaren, just offer is a Titanium race exhaust option, akin to the 675LT and software to enable that fuel cut feature to create the "crack" sound on gear changes...slap on some new Trofeo R's or the new Pirelli Corsa P Zero's.

Problem solved, lot's of emotion.

And to all the BS about the 720s being too good, next time your at Mastro's or your favorite steak place, tell the waiter the filet is too good and to please bring me a piece of chuck streak...that is how stupid these Youtube reviews are.

MB

 

Am baffled re this no emotion feedback as Mac had that licked with 675LT which remains the most incredible car I have ever driven (and I have had some good ones). Maybe what is really happening is that we and reviewers are enthusiasts and are in a minority and Mac knows most people want more more composure.

The 675 tells me they can do it easily so why not.......

I didn't find the 488 exciting to drive. However to be fair I stepped out of the LT in to it which was hardly fair.

 

Well, strangely he knocks the McLaren for exactly what everyone else does -- manipulate the system to create pops and crackles. The Huracan is notorious for it. It does it over and over and over, sounding exactly the same.

 

They probably appear stupid to people who don't agree with it....

I get exactly what they are saying. Years ago I wanted a GTR, badly. So I got to drive one and the first time I drove it was basically a couple launch controls and a trip around the block, was in love. I was set ot buy one. The owner said, why don't you spend a day with it first....to be sure. So I did. The car was a like a video game...bored me to death unless you were doing launch control or driving at the limit of the situation. I didn't buy one as it had zero emotion. Instead I bought a C7 Z06, a car much more involved yet still wasn't perfect to me but more emotion than a GTR by far. Little time passes and then I ditched it (even though it was a faster more capable car) for a 458. Was way way way happier. In there somewhere that same buddy got a Turbo S. Again wow wow wow fast and fun on launches and driving hard. Car sounds pretty blah outside that. Its almost too much like a video game again. Would I buy one of those? Probably for a daily but not as a car for emotion. It lacked it. I bought a 488 a few months back and while the exhaust note lacks on the car it still has plenty of emotion and feels like a event every time you are driving it.

I fully 100% expected the 720S reviews to be nothing short of mind blowing... however I am just not seeing that in these reviews. I see most pulling back with some type of negative comment about the emotion and so on.

Basically over and over ive seen "it's so fast........but".

 

I'm curious to know what you think makes a car emotional other than the exhaust sound.

 

Naturally Aspirated Engine.

 

I think technology has all but eliminated turbo lag and now have comparable throttle response to NA engines. Reviews for the AMG-GTR, new Porsche Turbo, 488, 720, etc.all confirm this.

On a separate note, the emotion thing is about how much of a car's potential can an average to good driver get out of it on public roads. Maybe the 458 was the last of a generation able to experience 8/10's while feeling like your doing 12/10's with a screaming exhaust note. The Cayman is a more modern example and why the GT4 is so good, you can take it right up to the limit and feel like Sebastian Vette, but by comparison to a more capable car, your going much slower.

The problem with the 720s and the 488 is they are just too fast for public roads and even though 7/10's is much faster than the above, they feel sedate by comparison. On a track you have far more to worry about than a silly exhaust note. Doing laps in a Renault Cleo on the Nürburgring was about the most emotional car experience I've ever had.

MB

 

Aren't you getting a 488?

 

Scratched it off...just can't do it.

Sticking with NA until I can't.

 

its odd to me that there is so much talk about performance, does it do a time of 2.8 0r 3.0........ there is so much more then speed ..... if I wanted speed I would just blow both cars away with a dodge demon...2.3 !!!!! I get tired of reading conversations about speed ....what about craftsmanship workmanship and styling

 

All these coplaints about lack of emotions in the 720S all boils down to one thing only: SOUND!!! I'm shocked at the amount of attention and engineering spent on the 720S and yet, they din seem to have spent similar levels on the sound. Perceived connection with the car and emotion has everything to do with sound. Every prod of the throttle pedal must be accompanied by a dramatic and noticeable change in the engine/exhaust note. That gives people the sense of connection and feeling that the car is awake. Driving a NA Ferrari is like pulling on a few strands of hair of an irrate woman. Every little tug is accompanied by an instant (often violent) aural reaction.

 

If sound were not important, and raw performance numbers only, we would all have a Tesla.

 

When I had a 12C, that car was always 'criticised' for being less emotional. McLaren then responded by trying to add emotion in and calling the car the 650S. I never agreed with that. McLaren's whole business approach is rather unemotional. Instead it is science and engineering led - that's who they are and broadly how they race, so they should build their cars like that.

Ferrari are different to that. Their engineering is more based on being intuitive, perhaps not so logic-determined but feeling oriented. I think it is best that both manufacturers build cars that reflect their personalities and personally, I think that McLaren have done that with the 720S.

You often hear the phrase "bending the laws of physics" associated with McLarens. That's how they feel. The thing is, bending the laws of physics makes the whole thing much more about the car - less emotional. Whereas Ferraris dance on the edge of the laws of physics, and whether real or not, they tend to give more of a feeling of you and the car together got the job done - more emotional.

I'm not trying to say one is somehow more worthy of merit than the other, or that real drivers choose one and not the other - no way! Simply that our personalities will gravitate to one or the other more often; scientific or intuitive (I'm more often the latter).

Perhaps another way to say it is that a Ferrari dances along the road, a McLaren humiliates it. Whichever of these statements someone prefers might tell them which brand they would enjoy more. The fact that there are two very serious companies with different approaches is to be celebrated, not continuously compared as if we can discover which is best. That would be a silly question.

To give my own answer to your question, based on the above - it is a hundred small things, found all over the car.

 

I believe that what people refer to as emotion is really the connection to the car. Basically the more intuitive the driving, the more connection/emotion you get. For example, when one pushes the loud pedal, he/she expects a linear growth in thrust and sound. Having turbo lag, or a powerful mid range and then running out of steam at higher RPM, is counter intuitive and loosens the connection, diminishing the emiotinal attachment. That's why Ferrari engineers its turbocharged V8s to mimic a N/A engine. The same goes for everything. So no, it's not just the sound.

 

That Dodge doesn't really have the power/weight ratio and the aero for such figures. I believe they are quoting those stats on drag tyres and in a strip with that special glue. Heck, they even provide skinny front tyres for the strip! No way they can replicate those results with road tyres in the real world. Just not enough power for the weight and aero, not to mention the slushbox and the never ending traction issues. Finally, there's a lot more than 0-60. Like 0-150 for example.