Another reason how analog Enzo-era Ferraris are different.

The proliferation of carbon fibre is not "unrestrained" at all; it is completely dependent upon how much a buyer is willing to spend on it!

 

Huh????

 

Of course, well aware of the commonly acknowledged segmentation of the company history. I believe the OP intended to demarcate the transition in eras as between when Enzo was alive and involved in some capacity, and after his passing, post-Enzo. "Enzo-era" may not have been the most clear term in that case, given the commonly understood meaning on its own.

 

So it's just me . No offense intended at all. I just read into he video ... "So easy even a girl can drive it" automatic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

The Next Porsche 911 GT3 Is Getting An Actual Six-Speed Manual Gearbox


And yet its still modern. Proof you can have both a modern car, a viceral car, and there is is enough product demand.

 

And Porsche isn't doing any of this for "free" -- they see the market and are making sure to capture it.

Seems smart and more options are better for buyers (personal opinion).

 

+1

 

>
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Your F12 is a far more beautifully put together car than my F512M. But the Rolls, Bentley and Lambos of today are also, under their German owners, far better put together than under their former owners.
Whether any of them are more long term reliable is down to electronics. I'd rather have a 20 year old F512M than a 20 year old F12.

 

Good points. However, too late to complain about electronics. Bigger issue is when they are ALL electric. How about a 20 year old 600# high voltage battery? Or cabling and HV electronic modules?

Also, impossible to have a 20 year old F12 and a 20 year old F512M. By the time an F12 is 20 years, the F512M would be 40 years which would be a totally different situation - but I get your point.

 

Oh don't get me wrong. I actually work on my 360. When something breaks, I fix it. I've owned a 928 for 18 years. I can fix anything. Thing with my 360 is its as reliable as my Boxter was. Drive, rest during week... Drive, repeat.

The difference being with perhaps the exception of the 328, from what I've seen the 355 and earlier always have something broken. There's always "something" in addition to the curling leather on the airbag. That jump with the 360 was intentionl and a good thing. For crash safety and rust with the aluminum bodies and the ability to drive it. That 80's crap technology simply won't fly today...

 

Is this another one of those "I don't like the new Ferrari's because of the electronics" posts?? Damn, Ferrari owners have enough outside haters and quite a few inside haters too. If you like the older cars buy the older cars but whats the point complaining about it. It's not like Ferrari is going to make new old cars.

I love my new Ferrari but you'll never hear me talking crap about the older Ferrari's even if my only interest in them would be for an investment.

 

I think its people lamenting that ferrari has abandoned many of the driving elements that made some of the classics so great(despite their manifest flaws), no one is asking for a return to 80's tech. Before anyone disparages this comment as antique, we see that ferrari still goes for soem classic attributes like engine and exhaust sound, latterly looking for throttle response like a NA motor too, not to mention still exotic styling. Unfortunatly for a number of us there are still some elements from the classics like steering feel/feedback, and a general man machine interface that the newer cars have gone backwards in experience wise.

Mow its true the newer cars are way faster, reliable, better built and easier to use. But that ease of use coupled with paper speed has come at a price.

If one looks at Mclaren the mp12 which was a relative failure, it went after ease of use. The evolved 650 improved things slightly, but then they had a hit with the LT, a car designed off the same platform again for the more raw fringe. Similar in way to how ferrari thought they would struggle to sell the 288 it being too raw and fast for the softer 80's crowd, a car follwed by what 1500 even more raw F40's.

Now I know ferrari made the CS, the scud and the speciale, but there were unobtanium and went to favored customers, very few to be seen out in the wild actualy being excercised. If you want to buy a new ferrari, its possible if you order and wait, which is fine, but you simply cant buy a new raw one, and even then they could go further.

So point is I dont think anyone has any issue with modern build, even turbos, its the package execution, the choices made which for some of us makes ferrari a more mainstream and blanded experience. We yearn for a car fun to drive at all speeds. Its not just about stick, in fact a stick may not necessarily be a requirement, although it would be fun.

Tell me no one here would have loved something like a 458 with a small 12 from a 599 and a stick, or even the then current v8 tuned for more Tq and a great 6 speed in a lighter speciale type package. A slower car for sure, but probably more fun to drive, something to keep instead of trade for the next newer model.

Porche seems able to make modern cars, offering a range of drivign experiences off one platform in many guises. That ferrari does not do this is indicative of them simply not caring. Ferraris focus is in offering CF and sheilds, high margin items, the equivalent of detroit decal packages.

To their credit ferrari has done just fine with this strategy, but for many of us they have devolved to offering really fast GT cars, which despite the epic speed on paper offer a driving experience is more Gt than hard core. Yes they are epic on track, but drive around on the street in one or backroads on a sunday, and its just a car, because the full performance is not exploitable on street, and below 9/10ths the modern ferrari could be almost any car to drive.

What the "enzo" era cars offered was a driving experience prioritised over other factors. in the modern world prioritising driving experience need not come at the expense of reliability or build, its more about what a manufactuerer chooses to focus on. Witness the cayman Gt4 and upcoming 911R.

As to the term Enzo era, the current dates are arbritrary in terms of the cars.. perhaps we need to expand our definitions to enzo derived or enzo inspired cars, because 69 or 71 is an arbritrary cutoff in terms of how the cars were executed or to drive. The 355 and TR are surely transition cars to the luca ease of use era. In some ways these two point to a great formula. Mostly useable, but still retaining enough classic attributes to be interesting.

To me a 308 is a classic Enzo ferrari ferrari and I thinka s the market or buyer mature in their tastes we will see this reflected in buyers choices and prices.

So where is my modern 288 built of a 488, where is my 430 powered 308, etc.

 

From the net, it explains pretty well, "Enzo" supervision as an era, and what the old man sought in a car, perhaps why so many feel the moderns lacking..

"Not only was the F40 built to commemorate the forty year anniversary of Ferrari (hence the name), but it was also the last car to roll out of Maranello under Enzo’s supervision before his passing. At its launch, Enzo said, “Little more than a year ago, I expressed my wish to the engineers. Build a car to be best in the world. And now the car is here.” Ferrari marketing officer, Giovanni Perfetti, added, “Customers had been saying our cars were becoming too plush and comfortable. The F40 is for the most enthusiastic of our owners who want nothing but sheer performance. It isn’t a laboratory for the future, as the 959 is. It is not Star Wars.” Double burn. The F40 was truly a race-bred driver’s car meant to scare anyone brave enough to pilot it. Enzo always said, “I don’t care if the door gaps are straight. When the driver steps on the gas, I want him to **** his pants.” I wouldn’t be surprised if Enzo got his wish with the F40 and can guarantee he’d still be grinning over the ordeal."

 

These guys have it down to a T.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRxbgACxlec

 

I'm glad I found this thread.

The last analog Ferrari was the 512 BB. (Not the BBi)

 

Ok Imagine this, with a 430 V8 and pinin styling, or somehting like Jim Gs enzo p3/4 rebody or even laferrari derived styling.

No reason Ferrari couldnt build a car like that for those of us who care, make a profit and for that matter reinforce their "brand" as something for serious drivers.

But yes many of you are right they are making a mint selling handbags for men with deviated stiching and plastic sheilds on the fenders.

Spied! Dallara Road Car Will be a Streetable Track Toy - Motor Trend

 

The truth about "Enzo era" cars.

They rust if you look at them
They are hot as hell inside
Quality control sucked
The paint is horrible
They crunch in 2nd gear
They break down or go bad all the time
They can be ridiculously expensive to fix or maintain.
Headlights and windshield wipers are useless.
They are clutch eaters
They have zero safety equipment other than seat belts.
They are slow by today's standards.

Yes they are charming and sensory overloads because you can't make something like them today. But the truth is-- aside from that they are not great cars.

 

I really shouldn't be surprised at let's say the diversity of viewpoints here. I am completely in Boxerman's camp on this. Being older, I have driven so many cars from the 60's through today and have experienced the sea change from cars you could feel and experience that were connected to you and the pavement and the new cars that are isolated from both. My newest car is a 93 Rx7 which itself was designed as a throwback to the 60's Lotus Elan. The only thing modern about the Testarossa is its electric windows. When people say the new cars are just fine or better than the older cars, it makes me wonder what seat time they have in older sports cars. Getting out of my 91 BMW E30 M3 and hopping into a new M2 is night and day for sure. And not a good contrast for sure.

About all the new cars offer is they are faster in raw speed and may go around a track easier than the older cars. But, who actually drives over 150 mph anywhere and lives outside of jail to tell about it? All the new hot cars do at least 190 mph. Why? Why not offer cars that "only" did 150, but offered the steering and road feel that the best older sports cars did?

I took the power steering out of my Rx7 and had a custom manual rack built to improve the feel. I took the airbags out, because they weigh too much and I avoid accidents. I took the ABS out, because I don't like the feel of it and would rather control my own braking thank you. All that made my Rx7 a much, much better sports car.

Some say Ferrari will never go back to offering cars with old school feel. Maybe not. They are a business and make more money by being able to offer paddle shifted safety bumper cars that anyone with the money can buy. You don't have to be able to drive well. The cars do that. But, Porsche stopped offering manual shifters and then started offering them again. So, maybe there's hope.

 

One person's Sensory Overload is another's Engaging Involvement.

 

I agree. I'm not discounting "the fun" of driving one. But, as actual vehicles, some of them are pretty crappy vehicles that we have learned to tolerate.

I said this in another post. Ferrari today are not building sports cars. They are building GT cars that Kim Kardashian can take to Rodeo Drive and buy a new handbag. And, they seem to sell pretty well so is that so wrong? They are just following the market.

When did this change? Hard to tell but probably with the 360 F1 and definitely with the 458. Anyone who has driven an 80's Testarossa knows Kim would hate just about everything to do with it.

I may not be that market but lets face it, its successful for them.