Ferrari 488 Compared to the McLaren 720s

Correction here. The article says 0-170 in the 720S is 15.7, so yeah, that's 2.9s quicker than the 488, which is roughly what the 488's 0-60 time is. Standing quarter trap speed is 143.5 mph to the the 488's 136.9 mph. That's very, very fast. Only .3s slower than a 918 to 130 mph, and .5s slower at 180 mph.

Here's the full article with the numbers:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/dedethecollector/34830764956/in/album-72157681118492714/

Here's the 488 for comparison:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/dedethecollector/27125857610/in/album-72157668800654221/

 

Put 488 turbocharged in a 720s tub and you obtain an even faster car

 

Put balls on my aunt and she would be my uncle...

 

Sounds funny but has something in it.

I think Ferrari has developed with its new V8 the currently best and most potential turbo engine. The performance limit of 670hp (PS) lies in the model policy and is not technically justified. A "reasonable" distance to the other models had to be preserved. Not too far away from the predecessor, not too close to the V12 flagship.

Ferraris own model policy will also make it difficult to respond to the 720S.

 

Thanks for the correction, for whatever reason these figures were not returned previously (they are now, and the 16.9s I quoted is still there).


In addition to being almost 3s faster than the 488, the 720S is also 1.2s faster to 170 than the 720S

The 720S is obviously a better car than the 720S.

 

It might not be so simple as extracting more power often comes at the expense of lag.

 

Well, in 10 years when Ferrari starts using a CF tub, maybe we'll find out.

 

Not necessarily. They performance limit of the 488 is also due to the NA characteristics they've wanted to replicate. It's entirely possible that getting a lot more power out of it would end up making it feel like a more traditional turbocharged car.

 

And that's the problem with turbocharged engines. Any "idiot" can build a strong/heavy block and then upt he pressure. I would like to see McLaren trying to build their own (no Riccardo trickery) N/A 9000 RPM V8...

 

I do not think the peak horsepower and torque is determined by that concept, the way it is delivered yes, but not overall power. I could be wrong but that is my opinion.

 

Why would they try to build an NA 9000 RPM V8? Such engines have no place in the world anymore. They are not competitive on price or performance. I'm sure they could build one if they wanted to invest the time and money into it, but not even Ferrari wants to invest the time and money into it. NA engines reached their peak right as McLaren Automotive was born.

 

You're right, it's not, but the more power and torque you want, the more lag you create. The delivery method may only be able to mitigate certain amounts of lag.

We'll have to wait and see. I don't think anyone here can really say for certain what the limits of the system are.

 

very true

 

Why? Well, I don't know but possibly because a 458 Speciale A is an utterly fantastic car...9k+ revs with true--not piped in--mechanical engine noise--is something that makes it even more special.

Beyond that, and tellingly, its already in exceptionally high demand with current market values of at least 2x original cost less than 2 years ago. Some say by 2020, it could be 4x original cost? Which McLaren (besides the classic McLaren F1--NA of course) has held value even to its cost, much less is 2x in 2 years?

So, to answer the question--Why? Maybe just because there is real and long term value in very high revving NA engines... and that value is simply not going to ever be diluted by something less that goes an extra 2 or so Tenths from 0-60.

 

Speciale is so expensive because it's more limited and the rest of the car is more exciting. If the engine was so magnificent, 458 prices would be much firmer and going up as well. In 2020, a 458 will be in the low 100s, and the 458 sounds much better than Speciale too.

Speciale, Scud, and CS prices are firm or go up. Their normal versions go down, down, down. Has nothing to do with the engines, has everything to do with there more limited supply and Ferrari cachet/collectibles.

The Speciale is nowhere near 2x the value from 2 years ago. The cars trade near MSRP. Only the Aperta has an insane price and, again, it's mainly due to the rarity of it.

Regulatory decisions will kill NA unless hybrids show up, and even they it may kill NA because certain massive markets like China tax based on displacement and the displacement needed for NA put it into a tax bracket that is undesirable. Regulator may even prevent high displacement hybrid set-ups.

At the end of the day, Ferrari knows they can more easily and more cheaply sell turbo cars, and they know what the future of regulation will most likely hold. They also know they need to be competitive in performance. Believe it or not, Ferrari can't just make slower cars than the competition. If they could, they wouldn't bother boosting the power so much. Porsche boosted HP in the GT3 by only 60 hp from 2006 to 2016. Ferrari boosted hp by 90 hp, then they boosted it another 80 hp a couple years later, and in a couple years with the 488S, it will be boosted by probably another 40 hp.

A NA V8 that goes to 9000 RPM is not viable in the exotic market.

 

Personally I think 458 will be a very good car to hold on to. Values are still pretty stable, given that we are now in the sweet spot for its depreciation - its replacement is available in both Spider and Coupe and supply has now been coming through for a while. The fact that it isn't in the toilet in depreciation terms is remarkable in itself. When the 488 is replaced, and again, the 458 will stand out as an exotic and intense experience. Speed is not the only requisite for excitement after all.

And if that is correct, when supply of good ones is lower the price will move up again. In the UK the 430 is now over £100k for reasonable examples. The floor of the 458 is only about 15-20% above that and it is a lot more car.

As for the 488 v 720 debate, it will only ever come down to which brand you prefer because people can find convincing reasons to buy either if they are minded to. Which is the fastest is usually not how to judge the relative merits of each one. Usually the newest is the fastest anyway - especially in McLaren's case. Perhaps the best way to judge which is ultimately the best is to gauge which one sells the best, not in absolute terms but against expectations. And, at the risk of seeming partisan, discount levels over the life of the car tend to be a good arbiter of that, assuming the cars have a reasonable retail in the first place, which they both do. Sort of.

 

Are you so sure that the 488 replacement will not bring a CF tub?
Obviously they will not reveal it now ...we all know Ferrari policies and there are many cars of the current lineup to sell yet.
More bearing in mind that the next car will be hybrid, matter of weight.

 

True, but as Soichiro Honda used to say "boost is cheap, revs are expensive".

 

Ferrari have unveiled a new platform, which is again based on an aluminium construction.

 

Sure?

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/ferrari-plans-hybrid-models-and-new-common-architecture

 

Quoting anything from Honda is prob the last thing anyone wants to do now considering the embarrassing situation they are in with F1 now.

 

Soichiro-san was a brilliant engineer and wouldn't tolerate Honda's recent failures.

 

Ferrari's modular next-gen platform is under construction - Autoblog

 

P1

The other ones? Not so much.

 

Right, higher revs are by far too expensive for what it brings in a street car.