Headlights & Instrument Lights - Intermittent | FerrariChat

Headlights & Instrument Lights - Intermittent

Discussion in '308/328' started by BNSC100, Jul 14, 2017.

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  1. BNSC100

    BNSC100 Karting

    May 28, 2009
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    Full Name:
    Michael
    1986 328 - USA Car

    Item #1
    When driving at night, sometimes everything just goes black. Headlights, instrument panel etc.. Can't be sure about taillights as Im usually focused on what's ahead in the dark when it happens... Usually it snaps back on when I hit the next bump in the road. I THINK but can't be sure (been 2 yrs) that touching the stalk gently, might help bring them back.

    Doing some work and looking to try and get this corrected. Im thinking the solder on the stalk switch is my first place to look?

    Item #2 (bonus question)
    Driver door jam switch seems to have a short. I can jiggle it and the door buzzer will go on and off. Dome light never works when on the "door" setting. Door handle puddle (white lights) lights, both sides, don't ever work. Red door jam (lock/striker end of door) lights have never worked (both sides).
    Could door buzzer switch be the issue here for all these things? I don't think #1 and #2 here are related, right?

    Hate to say I have not tried bulbs on the puddle lights and door jam lights... I should have before writing this.... #1 is my main concern due to safety... I don't allow myself to drive at night anymore...
     
  2. BNSC100

    BNSC100 Karting

    May 28, 2009
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    Michael
    By the way, when the headlights go out, the pods generally stay up. Never had an interruption of pod operation, at least in my mind...
     
  3. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    May 27, 2003
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    Are you sure the headlights go out with the running and instrument lights?

    Another place to look is the relay panel connectors.
    See if you have a burnt plastic shell.

    I had the intermittent on the instrument lights and running lights on my GTS, and it came back to a bad connection on connector J pin 8.
    Common problem on US 328s: there are two wires on that pin, so when you stuff the board back into place, it can pull on the connector, leaving a partial contact.
    When the current goes up, it heats, and can toast the plastic connector shell, leading to an intermittent.
    I'd thump the dash to get it back as a temporary, before I got the connector shell replaced.

    A confusion on these cars is the translation from Italian to English.
    There are two systems translated as "parking lights", but with two different names in Italian.
    The console switch turns on parking lights -- one bulb per corner, for lighting the corners when parked.
    The stalk operates the running lights -- multiple bulbs per corner, dash lights, etc.
    The systems are connected through oddball relay "o".

    The headlamps are not involved, but the fog lights are.

    If the J8 connector goes off, you lose the power from fuse 16, and the running lights revert to just the parking lights.



    If the headlight bulbs really are going out as well, it might point to another issue.
    But look at the relay board connections. The 328 is known for having poor connectors there.

    Intermittent wiring connections can be tricky to find.

    All you can do is get into the wiring and start shaking things, trying to replicate the problem while the car is in the garage.
     
  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
    26,638
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    "Generally"? You have to be more certain about this -- do they: 1) always stay up, 2) sometimes stay up and sometimes go down, or 3) always go down?
     
  5. BNSC100

    BNSC100 Karting

    May 28, 2009
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    Michael
    Thanks Guys

    To add clarity...

    1. The headlights and instrument pod (speedo and tach etc) definitely go out and back on together. No question about that.

    2. The pods... I have not remembered them going up and down when the issue arrises. It has been about 2 years since I have driven at night. Im pretty sure I would notice waiting for the pods to rise once the lights come back. I generally drive in the countryside so there is not much alternative light so Im pretty anxious when they go out. I recall it sometimes being a quick on and off (dash and headlights), too fast for pods to fall and rise.
    I also don't ever recall it being just headlights or just dash. As far as I recall, it's always both at the same time.
    When I said "generally" it was probably a poor choice of words.
     
  6. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Check your grounds. (Check for rust spots, etc.)

    The running/instrument lights and the headlights are completely different circuits.
    For that matter, the right and left headlamps run different circuits.

    Did you notice anything else dropping out, such as the gauge readings?
    That might point to a power connection to the relay board.

    It'll be hard to diagnose an intermittent problem based on two year old memories.
    You should probably get under the dash in the garage and start wiggling wires. ;)

    If the problem is as you describe, then take a wiring diagram and check the stalk switch ---
    --- carefully.
    They're fragile and very difficult to replace.
     
  7. Vinsanity

    Vinsanity Formula Junior

    Sep 9, 2013
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    "VD"
    Had a similar goof with my 308 QV, a while back. Turned out to be the instrument light rheostat. It started out as an intermittent problem, triggered by road-jitter, the progressed to full-on no-worky-worky. I'll admit I "fixed" the bad rheostat dimmer by simply bypassing it with a short length of wire. Should probably replace it, (or at least add an in-line fuse to my jumper connection) but I hadn't even thought about it since it happened (while on an epic road-trip).
     
  8. BNSC100

    BNSC100 Karting

    May 28, 2009
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    Vinsanity
    Did you experience dash and headlights going in and out together...? Or just dash lights...?
     
  9. Vinsanity

    Vinsanity Formula Junior

    Sep 9, 2013
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    "VD"
    As I recall, it was just the instrument lights.
     
  10. BNSC100

    BNSC100 Karting

    May 28, 2009
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    Michael
    Two current thoughts....

    1. Stalk Swtich - 328
    Apologize if I have missed any key threads in my first search, but seems the stalk switch on 328 is different form most of the photos on the threads I have seem which describe the 308 switch. The collar etc on the stalk that snaps into the switch knob does not seem to be noticeable on my 1986 328. Maybe I just need a better view? Does it just pull off?
    Am I correct that I see more people doing behind the steering wheel more on 328's than 308's? Is that what Im in for on the 328?

    2. Does this make sense: If multiple elements are failing and coming back at same time (both headlights, instrument lights etc) and they are said to be on different circuits, would we assume they each have a different ground that each would have to fail at same time? My head keeps going back to the power source feeding the mechanism (switch?relay?) that triggers all those items...? I know little about electrics, so I might be making little sense...
     
  11. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
    26,638
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    Had a look at your 328 wiring diagram Fig 6 (which you can download from here: ferrari documentation), and, unfortunately, if the stalk switch was causing the headlights, running lights, and dash lights to go out, I believe it should also cause the headlight pods to lower. Since you report that that is not happening, I'd be more fearful that the fault is on the fuse-relay panel PCBA itself.

    One test that you could do is just hook a jumper wire from a good ground to the small green (V) wire in the x white connector (the metal back end of the female terminal holding the green wire is sort of accessible as a place to connect the jumper with everything plugged in). That will simulate a closed stalk knob switch so the exterior lights should come "on". If you still have the same trouble with that jumper in place when driving around, that would confirm that it isn't bad behavior at the stalk knob causing the issue.
     
  12. BNSC100

    BNSC100 Karting

    May 28, 2009
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    Michael
    Thanks....

    I actually just went out with better light than I had the last time I looked and there does seem to be a "collar" on the end of the switch knob... So, assuming it separates just as the 308 switch does.

    Also, as noted previously, it has been a while, so my recollection of the issues could be off. It's probably going to come down to some jiggling around and trying to replicate the problem...

    Thanks for support and comments. Will report anything interesting that I find. Im assuming this will be more problematic than the door puddle/courtesy lights and dome light. Im going to try to resolve that too...
     

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