can't be a coincidence....why is it marked "K" | FerrariChat

can't be a coincidence....why is it marked "K"

Discussion in '348/355' started by bikz, Apr 30, 2015.

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  1. bikz

    bikz Formula 3

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    #1 bikz, Apr 30, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    i was going through the relays in my fusebox in the footwell finding the culprit for non working dashlights and rear lights......in the process i came across a relay marked with "K" in blue marker pen....(12V 2x15A) Bosch 0332015006

    then i go on the my348.com website and I find among the photos there a photo of the fuse box with the same "K" marked relay...so I guess this must be from the factory...what does it mean....is this relay anyhow different from the others?


    ps: whats the difference between a 12V 30A relay and a 12V 2x15A relay?
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  2. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
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    #2 Ricambi America, Apr 30, 2015
    I took that picture, and that's my teddy bear. :)
     
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  3. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #3 Wade, Apr 30, 2015
  4. dfranzen

    dfranzen Formula 3
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    #4 dfranzen, Apr 30, 2015
    BIG DIFFERENCE:

    12V 30A relay single throw 30A leg

    12V 2x15A dual throw 15A legs

    look on the sides of the relay there is a schematic (electrical) diagram that shows how it works
     
  5. bikz

    bikz Formula 3

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    #5 bikz, Apr 30, 2015
    Daniel, do you still have Enzo Teddy around? Thanks for letting me borrow him and your old fuse box! Lol..
    Ok guys...why is it marked K ?
     
  6. bikz

    bikz Formula 3

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    #6 bikz, Apr 30, 2015
    Could I replace the latter with the former or vice versa ?
     
  7. dfranzen

    dfranzen Formula 3
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    #7 dfranzen, May 1, 2015
    NO!
     
  8. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    #8 m.stojanovic, May 1, 2015
    The relay is marked K to indicate that it has dual contacts and that the two output contacts (87 and 87b) are isolated from each other when the relay is not energised. Same relay is used by Volvos 240, 740 and 940; Volvo p/n 1235893, BOSCH p/n 0-332-015-006. Usage:

    1. Headlight relay for 740 1985-92, 780 1987-91, 940 1991-95
    2. Main Headlight relay for 240 1986-93 only
    3. Oxygen Sensor/Lambda relay for 240 1977-81, 260 1980-81
    4. Multi-purpose relay for 240 1975-93: Seat Heater
     
  9. emac

    emac Formula Junior
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    #9 emac, May 2, 2015
    I think I recall seeing relays with a K from BMW's back in the old days. I may have some around the garage.
     
  10. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #10 Wade, May 2, 2015
    Great info, thanks!
     
  11. cf355

    cf355 F1 Rookie

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    #11 cf355, May 2, 2015
    Great info.
    You should post this in the "master sticky" thread
     
  12. bikz

    bikz Formula 3

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    #12 bikz, May 5, 2015

    thanks for the brilliant info guys.....however i can tell that it is not easy getting the 2x15A ("K") relays....went to a few automative parts stores and they have never seen one before!

    i have tried a normal 30A relay (with 87 & 87a contacts) where the "K" relay shld go (exterior lightings) and everything seems to be working fine ...my question now is why would the manufactures go to the trouble of sourcing this "K" relay when a normal 30A relays works just fine in its place....also on a "normal 30A" relay, isn't the function the same, ie the 87 & 87a (as opposed to 87 & 87b) contacts are isolated when they are not energised and both have two contacts? what's the difference between a 84a and a 87b contact? just trying to learn here...thanks guys, esp m.stonajovic.
     
  13. eyboro

    eyboro Formula Junior
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    #13 eyboro, May 5, 2015
    In my world k stands for kosher, LOL
     
  14. dapper

    dapper Formula Junior

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    #14 dapper, May 6, 2015
    x1000
     
  15. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

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    #15 gothspeed, May 6, 2015
    .................. :D
     
  16. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    #16 m.stojanovic, May 6, 2015
    Hi "bikz",

    I will try to give a slightly more meaningful reply. The terminals 87 and 87a on a normal 30 Amp relay are not isolated from each other when not energised. They appear isolated outside but inside they connect to the same point. Two terminals, instead of one, are provided for the convenience of attaching two wires to the relay output (instead of splicing the wires together). 87 and 87b are separate when not energised.

    There is certainly a reason for the "K" relay. After a quick look at the diagram, it appears that it controls the tail parking lights, instrument lights and there is also a link to the front lights (very complicated wiring, would take a long time to get to every detail of it). With a normal relay instead of "K", some of the parking lighting functions may not work quite correctly. I don't know off hand (haven't tried) whether the 348 has the parking function where you can switch the parking lights on only one side (when parked at the roadside) - this may not work correctly. I suggest that you check in detail all lighting functions and see if you have case that some lights comes on when it shouldn't.
     
  17. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    #17 m.stojanovic, May 6, 2015
    Correction regarding the relay contacts 87 & 87a - the two outputs are isolated from each other but when one is on, the other is off and the other way around. When not energised: 87a "on", 87 "off". When energised, 87a "off", 87 "on".
     
  18. bikz

    bikz Formula 3

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    #18 bikz, May 7, 2015
    thank you very much m.stojanovic... i think the 348 has parking lights, just not sure if it is directional or not...(don't think so but i could be wrong)
    so in contrast, the 87 & 87b is "on" simultaneously when energised? is this how it differs from the 87/87a?

    if i can't come across a "K" relay, there's no harm or damage going with a normal 30A or 20/30A relay right?
     
  19. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    #19 m.stojanovic, May 7, 2015
    1. 87 & 87b - simultaneously "on" when energised, isolated from each other when not energised.

    2. 87 & 87a - 87 on, 87a off when energised, 87 off 87a on when not energised; isolated from each other in both case (this type is used for the headlamp motors and probably for some other switching)

    3. 87 & 87 - simultaneously on and off, not isolated

    I am sure you can find the K relay (K stands for "kacang") at Volvo parts shops or junkyards. They may not necessarily have the "K" written on them, look for the Volvo part number I mentioned earlier or, primarily, look for the markings at the spade terminals 87 and 87b. You can also try the BMW part shops.

    If you put a normal 30 Amp relay which has 5 pins, i.e. pins 87 and 87, there will be no risk except that you may find some light (instrument lights, fog lights etc.) coming on when they shouldn't. If you put an 87/87a relay, you may have something coming on when it shouldn't and something going off when it shouldn't.
     
  20. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    #20 m.stojanovic, May 7, 2015
    Sorry, don't go for BMW relays. They use the same pin numbering but the pins are positioned differently.
     
  21. 3forty8

    3forty8 F1 Rookie
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    #21 3forty8, Jul 29, 2017
    Hate to bump an old thread, but recently my dash lights went out and since it's not the fuse, connectors or wiring, the last item in the chain is the hard to find "K" relay. Found them here on clearance; if you need one or want a spare, grab it before they clear them out:

    https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/porsche-saab-volkswagen-volvo-multi-purpose-relay-bosch-0332015006
     
  22. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #22 fatbillybob, Jul 29, 2017
    I'm hearing relys getting harder to find. So great public service announcement!
     
  23. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3

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    #23 348Jeff, Jul 29, 2017
  24. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    #24 m.stojanovic, Jul 30, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  25. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    #25 taz355, Jul 30, 2017
    Are those relays or are you stocking up for scrabble??
     
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