Are 3 pedal Ferrari's (6spd Gated Manual's) Worth the $$$

As above, it's not how fast you go but how you go fast.

 

I try to keep up with the postings in that section and I have not seen what you are describing. Example of why the paddles are so popular? Sure you are picking the time to squeeze it but no one can tell if you know what you doing or not? The computers' got your back! ;-)

I can only speak for the 360 platform but your "6 steps to shift" represent one possible shift scenario out of MANY! Drivers choice! What a concept!

One thing that needs to be said is that if you have to "line up" the mechanism to prepare to shift into the center gate (3rd-4th) your car requires service. It could need a shifter bushing (~$100) or it has a broken spring in the assembly (~$20), or your cables are broken(?$), or etc. It will be easy for a DIY mechanic to troubleshoot this and repair, which is nice on an exotic car.

Considering the shifting scenario above, which may be employed by the driver say in a situation where there is a slight bit of downhill with a slow down event up ahead so that there is no need to rush through the process.

That is what the three pedal nazi's are trying to get though to you! One may simply exaggerate the motions/steps, or portions of the process, to control/savor a certain part/aspect of the process. For me, sometimes it's the gate sound or lack of it; other times it's the sound of a rev change or lack of it, yet another time it could be the amount of "let off" of the gas or the speed you wish to engage the clutch. Sometimes the terrain dictates your set of choices (incline/decline), sometimes it's the weather (wind/rain), sometimes it's the other types of traffic around you or the music or your mood, or maybe the condition of your vehicle? Is she hot and ready or are you just starting a drive on a cool morning?

There are shifting scenarios where the most efficient shift requires no letting off of the gas and others where you barely need to touch the clutch. Others are less straight forward but no less intriguing/interesting, like a 5th to 3rd skip downshift as you come out of hyper space to approach the off-ramp clover. Throw some interesting camber to the turn or a questionable surface and now you've invited a real teaser of how much RPM to hold as you consider your tires and the duration of the transitions. These are fun for any driver but there is a lot more involvement, decisions to make, variables to process, potential for error, for the three pedal person.

The "best" thing for me as a three pedal person is that all these things I mention give me "more to do" when I am piloting my sexy car so that I worry less about being the fastest. This is good for my health and pocketbook.

 

Yep. This is point. Unless you are tracking your Ferrari, paddles are wasted technology.

 

What a great descriptive post about how shifting works and its place in the joy of the drive..

 

Yes, great post Kevin!!

 

If you read through any of my previous comments as I have stated that if one is going with a 3 pedal then simply stick with a car that was designed for it. The bottom line is that some stubborn folks can't admit that the 3 pedal is old technology.

Remember. I have a 3 pedal car (non-Ferrari) myself and yes it is still fun to drive. I'm not the one who is ridiculously asking for a 6 speed 3 pedal in 458 or 488.

And by the way. You shift pretty fast but I can tell you were losing traction on your 1st to 2nd shift correct?

 

You need to read up on the F430 section. Some folks have tried many fixes but still have difficulty shifting into certain gears especially when the car warms up.

 

Really? Where are they for the F430 F1. This is the 3rd gen F1 type. Each model from 355 to 360 to F430 has improved greatly. When you factor in there are like 10 times as many F1's as 3 pedal it's amazing as to how many issues that's posted related to the 3 pedal F430 shifting issues.

My F1 has been great and reliable. And I take it up to 8,500 rpm through 3rd gear all the time and would obviously slaughter your 360 3 pedal or whatever. And don't forget I have a 3 pedal myself. So please stop with the Rodeo Dr comments.

And just an fyi, below a F430 I would certainly choose a 3 pedal over F1.

 

So what if it's old technology if people want it?

A steering wheel is old technology, does that make a full autonomous car better?

Again, lots of cars with the same/more power and same/close power curves as 458/488 with 3 pedals so not sure what is so ridiculous.

My car spins on the 1-2 and 2-3 shift but not much if the tires are warm.

 

Yes I see what you are talking about now about those 430's. The guy's thread from China started the most recent dialog when he replaced the master cylinder and now can't shift the car. WTF? No one asked why he replaced the MC? Or did I miss that?

I don't like the missing important details that should be in that thread. Where are the details about mileage on the cars that are having issues; service history especially things like gear oil, motor & trans mounts, etc.

This is on my mind. What do you think? Seems like the 430 with it's new engine design and timing chain instead of belts that do not require regular service "may" have created a class of cars or owners that didn't stay on top of the service because it wasn't perceived as critical. Maybe the new design is just now getting old enough to allow for special "issues" to start to show and the easy solutions are just about to be discovered?

I am mainly concerned for Blackbolt's issue, of increased difficulty shifting when the car is hot, since he is going about it the right way but I believe the latest is that he is unsure if his mechanic replaced the throw out bearing in a recent clutch job. I tell you fellas, always get the parts as proof! They are really cool to look at and can really ease your mind. Fingers crossed for him.

 

Seems to me the biggest draw back to the F1 is more to go wrong and the price of repair. To me the 3 pedal premium would be limited to full replacement price of an F1 system. They're both great to drive. Huge premiums on 3 pedals wouldn't interest me.

 

Whatever. And the comments about the F1 light blinking and not being able to shift are just anecdotes right? IF anyone wants to drive fast they skip the 430 and get a cheap 458.

 

Who exactly wants the 3 pedal with the exception of a few people like yourself. You and others have been asking for it for the last 7 years or more. 458 came out in 2010. Doesn't look like Ferrari is listening.

And you left one important piece out related to other cars...weight of vehicle. Feel free to name a 3,200 to 3,400 lb car which has in excess of 550hp with a 3 pedal in this day and age. You going to bring up a Corvette C7 Z06? Well go buy one then. Good luck you don't crash in it Heard the Vette's overheat too and go into limp mode while tracking.

And here's the deal when you're spinning the tires. You do realize you're losing a lot of acceleration. In addition with some cars like the Vette and Mustang you get a lot of torque twist when you slam it into gear with a 3 pedal and the car starts to go sideways even though you started straight. Guys try to compensate and correct steering and end up spinning out or crashing.

 

So what is the fun in that? Pin the throttle, pull a lever, keep the car straight. Might as well go autonomous, which is apparently what a Scud does. A buddy of mine told me you can keep the pedal flat and the car will take you around a turn faster than you can imagine. Sounds like fun the first two or three times, after that, meh.

 

I'm not leaving anything out nor am I in need of realizing anything.

If you want to know what high horsepower manual cars exist try google, you will find many.

As to the rest of your post I'm failing to see your point or how it relates to this discussion.

If you're the kind of driver that needs traction control and active handling to intervene before you crash note that those systems work equally well regardless of transmission choice.

 

Kev...I've been on Fchat since early 2007. I've seen plenty of posts over the years which members bring up pertaining to their 3 pedal issues with the F430.

You're referring to one specific thread and one specific issue related to the 3 pedal F430 but if you even go through that thread you will see others providing feedback on their own specific issues and resolution also. Each is different and often times it was done through trial and error until finally fixed or some were never fixed. There are other threads out there too.

And here is a key point. A 3 pedal gated 6 speed has been around forever. Ferrari still can't get this right? Could be any of the following resolutions:

1. Motor mounts
2. Cables
3. Bushings
4. Off alignment of gate
5. Actual clutch

Issues differ also which probably lead to what the resolution might be:

1. Harder to shift when car is hot
2. Trouble only getting into the upper gears on the gate
3. 1st and 2nd hard to engage
4. 6th gear difficult
5. Car shifts through the gates fine when engine is off.

And back to how Ferrari can't even get this right with the F430. Well...considering the 3 pedal was simply done as an after thought...yeah...no wonder all the problems exist.

I see more shifting complaints with the gated F430 than I do with a 360...even though there are way more 360 3 pedals out there in ratio to the F1.

I see way more F1 issues with the 360 than I do with the F430.

 

Whatever...LOL!! That's the best you can come back with. Do you even read through the F430 F1 issues. Now you're bringing up the F1 light blinking issue. This often relates to low fluid. The other two examples were as follows:

1. Teflon seals internal to the F1 system. Problem was resolved
2. Bulbs of the rear lights. Can you believe that. The dude switched to LED bulbs which messed up the brake switch sensor which is connected to the gearbox ECU.

Again...problem resolved. The deal the 3 pedal is guys are trying left and right to figure out what the issue is and still can't figure it out.

And I'll let you in on something. Here are some other cars I have driven:

1. 360 Challenge Stradale
2. 2010 458 Italia
3. Porsche 996 Turbo X50
4. E92 BMW M3 (414 hp) 6 speed manual

Here are some cars I have raced (all done on deserted straight roads):

1. Same 360 Challenge Stradale (360 CS got slaughtered). F430 is noticeably faster even when I drove the 360CS.
2. Same 2010 458 Italia (dead even from 35-90) but felt faster than my F430 when I drove it of course but only when getting into the upper mph. Took it all the way to 9K (458 only had maybe 200 miles on it.)
3. 458 Speciale (got the jump on it...30-100...Speciale never passed me)
4. F12 (this car obviously fast. Friend allows me to get the jump but easily made up the cushion and passed me. 30-100)
5. FF (20mph to 80) I beat it. He said the car was having issues downshifting.
6. 2012 458 Italia modded exhaust system 30 to 120. This 458 Italia passed me around 100 but the gap wasn't that big.
7. 1st gen Nissan GTR from a roll. 30 - 100. Even
8. 997 Porsche GT3 RS (450 hp). 20 - 140. One of the best races I've had. Barely won at top end. GT3 RS is quick. GT3 RS would pull ahead by around a half car but I would slowly catch up hitting 8,500 rpm finally at the top of 4th gear inched slightly ahead and both of us let off.
9. 996 Turbo X50 (500 hp). Even from dig and from roll.

F430 F1 is plenty fast enough. It's a great all around car. Handles well. Comfortable. Has decent straight line acceleration.

 

Different strokes for different folks. I'd venture to say, IMHO of course, that a ride in a 288 GTO would be orgasmic for me. I've driven a 458, it's a phenomenal track car, but on the back road twisties, I'd go stick baby! Interesting to me is how few people these days know how to drive stick. 5 of my 7 cars are stick.


Molti nemici molto onore

 

Couldn't agree more. Such a subjective matter as personal taste shouldn't matter that much in terms of prices of a Ferrari. The Ferrari ownership experience is much richer than just the way you shift gears.

I wouldn't be caught dead driving a manual car (as uncommon and special as a slice of bread here in Europe) if there's an auto option available.

And I do own a manual, gated Ferrari.

Kind regards,

Nuno.