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car design thread

Discussion in 'Creative Arts' started by jm2, Oct 19, 2012.

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  1. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    #5076 of2worlds, Aug 15, 2017
    jm2 many thanks for the 'floating roof' article! I didn't know there was such a rich history with that design detail. This comment seems to sum up the reason for the idea with Land Rover and others featuring this design detail >

    "So a floating roof is one of the tricks of the trade to try and manage the mass and proportions of those vehicles.”
     
  2. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    #5077 jm2, Aug 15, 2017
    2 tones from the '50's did much of the same things without changing the sheet metal

    Still surprised no one mentioned the Fuego :)
     
  3. Jeff Kennedy

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    #5078 Jeff Kennedy, Aug 15, 2017
    Finding ways to get the glass area of the upper to minimize the roof has been going on for a long time. Thin pillars and the deletion of B pillars for hardtops are all part of this.

    When the pillars couldn't be thin enough then you get black out of the exposed pillar. Of more recent is the covering over of the structural pillar with the class - from the exterior the window look big but the viewing area from the inside is quite small.

    It is all an exercise in graphics with the current floating effect a design differentiator; stake a claim to it as a piece of brand signature and it makes it harder for others to adopt.

    What the article is not getting is how much design difference there is when the upper was placed on the lower as a separate design element versus the more current integration of upper to body side.

    As for the Fuego, I remember when they were new. For their time they were a decent design. The black on the body side does not, to me, make for a floating roof. I see it as an alternative to the front-to-back body side groove halfway down the door turning it into a large graphic. Think as if on a tape drawing this section of black tape was just left in place.
     
  4. jm2

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    #5079 jm2, Aug 15, 2017
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    I can visualize the tape drawing!
    To your point though there is a long history of roof/body separation over the years. I think graphics plays a major role. The current large Jaguar XJ paints the C pillar black in an attempt to 'make it go away'. Doesn't work for me except on black cars.
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  5. jm2

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    #5080 jm2, Aug 15, 2017
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    There is a wonderful article in the July Top Gear that deals with the new BMW 8 Series.
    Samedesign brief as the 812. I would classify the Bimmer as beautiful. It is complex in some ways but the overall proportions, surfacing and details are marvelous. Great photos of the car as well. Highly recommended.

    The car makes a strong statement without being goofy or trying too hard.
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  6. tritone

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    #5081 tritone, Aug 15, 2017
    Not disagreeing.....but doesn't it look just a bit 'plump' in the mid-section?
    (...might be a factor of color/exposure tho....)
     
  7. jm2

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    #5082 jm2, Aug 15, 2017
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    Actually, it is a bit 'plump' in the midsection...............not unlike a 275 GTB. ;)
    Or the quintessential 'beauty' car the XKE Jaguar

    This is a whole new form vocabulary for BMW, and unlike 'flame surfacing', for me a more appealing solution. My guess is it might get a leaner volume when it goes into production...but then again, maybe not.
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  8. of2worlds

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    #5083 of2worlds, Aug 15, 2017
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    You and Jeff have 'design' covered front to back and everything in between!

    The July Top Gear was easy to find as it was second from the top on my reading stack and right to page 11 where the fun begins. Just like the Lexus the front grill is being turned into some kind of jewellery. That looks way better than the yellow 2015 BMW CSL concept!
    Can't help but think Bentley EXP 10 Speed 6 with that BMW 8 series concept design. Jason Barlow certainly has a way with words.
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  9. of2worlds

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    #5084 of2worlds, Aug 15, 2017
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  10. jm2

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    #5085 jm2, Aug 15, 2017
    This car borders on the caricature for me, but not quite.
    It almost crossed the line. :eek:

    The grille & the 'face' are getting ever more attention from most of the design houses these days, which I believe is a good thing. The 'face' is how most people recognize a brand. Rolls, Mercedes, Lexus :eek:, Ferrari, etc. Get it right and everyone knows what it is.........get it wrong at your peril, and you'll just be another forgettable brand.
     
  11. jm2

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    #5086 jm2, Aug 15, 2017
    Another great example of 'beauty' over 'look at me' excess
     
  12. of2worlds

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    #5087 of2worlds, Aug 15, 2017
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  13. of2worlds

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    #5088 of2worlds, Aug 15, 2017
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  14. of2worlds

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    #5089 of2worlds, Aug 15, 2017
    Acura...
     
  15. jm2

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    #5090 jm2, Aug 15, 2017
    :(
     
  16. Jeff Kennedy

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    #5091 Jeff Kennedy, Aug 15, 2017
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    John, you and I have gone around on the idea of a repeating face.

    I am not a believer in what, in my mind, a bunch of the designs have become. Do a design then graft a "brand" nose onto it. Certainly many are clearly acting as a slave to some marketing person's fear of even progressing the look.

    There are a few that do have a historic face/grill that they stuck with that is notable; most obvious being RR. But even they have been mutating the proportions and moved on from the vertical brick wall.

    We think in terms of MB having a consistent face but I present the following as evidence of how much it has changed. Then take note that the most recent have completely switched to what started as the SL open mouth version.

    For the concept that "face" is but a piece of the design story that one need not be a slave to, I present the Camaro. And no, I will not show the current retro things for which Bill Mitchell should be screaming from his grave about "lack of new ideas".
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  17. jm2

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    #5092 jm2, Aug 15, 2017
    Yes here is where we disagree. But I would add that some faces have more 'bandwidth' to move around. Rolls has maybe not moved the needle enough, others can't seem to land anywhere. I'm in the space that says develop a strong face and let it move around some. BMW has been good at this IMP. Split twin port grilles. Period. Plenty of bandwidth to move around in that space. We just think differently on this.
    Remember there's only one rule in design..........there aren't any.
     
  18. Jeff Kennedy

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    #5093 Jeff Kennedy, Aug 15, 2017
    You make a great case for how one can make a broad evolution that holds the kernel of the concept but not letting it become restrictive. The split grill of Pontiac played this very well over decades.
     
  19. of2worlds

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    #5094 of2worlds, Aug 15, 2017
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    I was thinking Pontiac before I even read the last sentence...
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  20. Jeff Kennedy

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    #5095 Jeff Kennedy, Aug 15, 2017
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  21. jm2

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    #5096 jm2, Aug 15, 2017
    I was involved with Pontiac's for over 12 years. We spent an inordinate amount of time on the twin port grilles. I still have the letter from BMW telling Pontiac to 'stop' using twin port grilles.......they started with 2 vertical grilles in the '30's and Pontiacstarted with 2 horizontal grilles in '59.

    We both wound up in the same place in the '90's.
     
  22. jm2

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    #5097 jm2, Aug 16, 2017
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  23. energy88

    energy88 Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #5098 energy88, Aug 16, 2017
    And don't forget about Oldsmobile jumping in the twin grill face starting in about 1969.
     
  24. jm2

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    #5099 jm2, Aug 16, 2017
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  25. Tenney

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    #5100 Tenney, Aug 16, 2017
    Maybe since the 275 GTB is slab-sided it gave it a more taller more plump look than the E?
     
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