California purchase guidance for a newbie!

There is no good answer to your question.. A Ferrari is a depreciating asset. I personally would never purchase a common Ferrari and hope to make money or not lose money. Buy a Ferrari because you want to drive it our you get a lot of satisfaction driving it to events and showing it off.

A 2009 is older so it will need more repairs and cost more to maintain.

I thought all California's were 2+2. I don't know what a bench is.

All I can say is the car is a blast to own and drive. It gets attention, but not too much, it fast on the track and fun on the road, its a convertible and a hard top.

I love driving my California T and drive it pretty much every day in the summer.

If money is not an important constraint, I would get the newer engine. It's unbelievably fast. The car will still be under maintenance.

Most important is find a car that has the features you want. Make some offers, I would not pay the asking price on carguru.com

hope that helps

 

Just like any other car would.....

 

I can't say I'm an old time Ferrari guy. I have always love Ferrari's. I have always driven a Honda. I bought my first Ferrari two years ago at 51. I spent 4 months searching, understood exactly what I wanted and started making offers at $20K under asking price. I found the right car for the right price.

To give you an idea of depreciation on newer California T. My car MSRP was $281K. The first owner put less than 1500 miles on it. I believe it was bought to move him up in line for a next Ferrari. I bought for $225K (car and some additional costs). If I sold now I would get $185K. Two summers later and I'm almost at 12K miles.

An older car will not depreciate as fast. There are a lot of people that don't drive their car because they don't want miles on it that will hurt resale. I personal would hate to be stressed out every time I got in my car to drive.

It will depreciate. On the other hand... You could sit on it for 50 years and it might be really valuable.

 

that bench is cool. never seen that before

my 2010 just crossed 30k miles with no problems

its going to depreciate. thats just reality. but ferraris tend to find "floors" where they settle.

 

Based on the experience I had with a California 2010 what I can tell you is the following. Early Calis are more prone to have gear-box transmission issues and mine was one of them. Fortunately there was a Ferrari Power extension warranty which covered all the repair costs involved otherwise the bill would have been around 10 K Euros. If there is one single advice I can give you is don't buy a Cali without a power warranty but I've seen the one you posted has one. I sold that Cali with 25 K Kilometers and never had any other issue apart from the gear-box. Some owners have reported here as well issues with the electric roof and apparently they are very difficult to diagnose and solve so make sure this Cali hasn't had past problems in that particular.

Apart from that the Cali NA is a lovely and versatile GT car. Easy to drive, beautiful sound, fast and you can travel long distances and arrive in one piece.

Welcome to the Ferrari family…..

 

Having seen that color in person - on a 456M not a Cali - it is special. I have read about, but never seen the bench. Thanks for posting pics. I echo what others have said, get the warranty for peace of mind against transmission (sensors more than mechanical issues from anecdotal evidence here) and top failures, assume whatever you spend on itis money out the window, and then just drive and enjoy the heck out of it.

I hope there is abundant sunshine where you live, because because driving an Azzuro California (& with no shields!), will be magnificent, and make you the envy of many.
Enjoy...T

 

The color is great, however if you are having roof issues, I would pass, as the that little fix could easily be 30k, not to mention your car may have transmission issues.
Further a car with no shields is a tough sell, IMHO
What are you looking to pay for the car ?

 

I have been watching the Californias for about the last 4 months as well since its the only ferrari my wife can stand to look at. I noticed that following the announcement of the Portofio prices have stated to come down, and I have seen at least 2 CPO Cali's at Ferrari dealers under 100k US, and a few at the independent dealers in the upper 80k range. So i have a feeling that as the release of the Portofino get closer we may well see some more movement on California prices.

Ill also agree with the statements about Ferrari's without shields, unless you plan on keeping the car more or less forever id pass on a car without shields. That brings me to the top issue, it will be very expensive to repair, since it will take a long time to troubleshoot, and generally if a Ferrari dealer does it i have heard they replace the entire harness if a sensor or relay is bad. Again if your going to keep the car forever more or less and dont intend to lower the top maybe you can live with the issue.

Personally when I finally pull the trigger, im going to get what I want and drive the thing, Service it when its time, fix it when it breaks and enjoy the car. I dont plan to buy it and get rid of it anytime soon.

 

I'm going to guess based on what I've read here on F-chat that the answer is yes, but perhaps less so in Europe than US. If you plan on keeping car for a long while, then resale issues are less important IMO.

Depends on how cold and rainy/overcast your winters are. In Texas, they're pretty mild & sunny, so we enjoy more top down weather in fall /winter than summer. Cali is a great everyday Ferrari as a coupe. I think as long as you have the right tires, you should be able to enjoy it in the cold/damp...T

 

I'd talk to some folks here who know the Swiss Ferrari market, rather than the Calis. With all the things you mentioned, I'd be putting my money back in my pocket, and heading on to the next car...T

 

+1

 

A few of the items you mentioned will more then likely be issues with nearly any Ferrari you look at to purchase, the clear bra and the rash in the front and rear. These are very common issues and I have not seen any used examples that dont have a little bit of scuff damage. Of course there are varying levels of damage to consider, which you mentioned completely cracked on one side of the rear diffuser.

If it were me, unless you just want to get into a Ferrari right away id hold onto my money (which I currently am) since it appears prices will start dropping. Furthermore id look at 2013 and 2014 models assuming prices do continue to drop since they have a horsepower upgrade , weight reduction and a better handling package. Its what im doing and for sure might be a gamble but i have a feeling more and more cars will flood the used market as the new model becomes available. Unless there is a huge buy up of these used cars i dont see the price going up for a while. I figure ill wait a year or so before i get real serious again about a Cali purchase. Last one I had PPI done on it was pretty simple to decide to run away.

Ive been told by a lot of people dont impulse buy a Ferrari, take your time and buy the best car you can. There are horror stories I have been told and read of people impulse buying Ferrari's only to be left with a less then stellar view of the brand. It sounds like you are heading in the right direction as far as looking at cars history and PPI but if it were me id pass on this one.

On a final note i thought that all California's were equipped with Carbon Ceramic brakes, and its been one of the things i have been figuring on in my annual maintenance budget since CC brakes arent cheap.

 

Great info everyone. I'm new to the market and hopefully new to the F family soon. I've read just about all the posts on the California subsection of this forum. Very helpful and informative. I'm set on a black exterior and interior. I've found a 2010 and 2012 both of which have roughly 14k miles and both are asking roughly 120k. Both are selling from individuals through dealers. The 2010 is from an F dealer and the '12 is from a non F dealer. I could get the F warranty for one year on the '10 and the LaSalle warranty on the '12. Neither have had DCT or top issues although there is a 'minor accident to the bumper' on the Carfax for the 2010. All things considered I'm leaning towards the '12 and flying this Friday to the dealership to check it out. BUT, I'd much rather have a '13 considering the issues with the earlier models and the extra hp that comes with the '13. I plan on driving this for fun on the weekends, probably 500 or less miles per month. Should I slow down and wait for the 13's to get to $120? Think that will happen soon with the Portofino release or should I dive in now and enjoy a '12???

 

Id say it depends on a lot of factors on weather to wait or not. I think i would pass on any early build Cali that hasnt had the issue of the DCT addressed in some way because it seems like it can rear its head at the most inopportune time. I also think waiting could be a blessing since it highly probable there will be more examples to choose from and the money savings are always a plus, more money to put away for rainy day repairs. However if you are in a position that you could swing something now, and arent worried about the potential loss in a purchase now and just want to get into the car and enjoy it there is nothing wrong with that either. Honestly if my truck were paid off I would probably consider more seriously something now. I just been kinda watching prices which until recently remained fairly steady but now appear to be creeping down. I also expect with winter coming on for that trend to continue. I cant say that the car we had a PPI done on and we passed on a couple of months ago is a bad thing though, since there is a CPO car at a Ferrari dealer now that is only a few thousand more then the one i was looking at. For my financial situation it would be better if i waited until my truck were paid off, but i certainly could afford it now. Id just have less discretionary funds to play with. Your situation my vary.

 

Andy... Is this a keeper? Or, likely to resell in a relatively short amount of time? If the latter, avoid the one with the accident. Cali is a first time Ferrari for many, and those buyers seem to be averse to anything that might make car seem less than perfect - no shields, minor Carfax incident, odd colors, etc.

As for 30 vs 1st gen, if there's a local dealer, friend, etc. drive both and see if it makes a diff to you. Many here on F-chat seem to suggest it does and is worth the premium. I think you can even find Handling Speciale package for those late in the 30 series; perhaps someone will chime in to confirm/deny my recollection.

Additionally, for the first time purchaser, I'd have a pref for official dealer CPO versus non-official dealt with after market warranty. But, that's just me. Fingers crossed, this isn't our last F-car, and so building a relationship with the dealer was important.

At the end of the day, I went first gen, which were screaming good deals at the time and one popped up at an F-dealer in a color combo my wife and I loved, and 1.5 years later, we're still loving the entire Ferrari experience. For us, gen 1 is more than enough car.

Good luck in the hunt.

T

 

My understanding on the early DCT speed sensor problems, from talking to a Ferrari master tech, is that there are some plastic clips (or zip ties) in the transmission that route the wiring. Originally, the clips were not up to the heat environment, and they would become brittle, leading to the wiring insulation getting abraded and causing shorts which affected the readings coming from the speed sensor. The clips were upgraded at some point -- it is not clear to me when they did that. I have 16k miles on my 2013 California 30 and have never had an issue with the gearbox. Since other Ferraris share this transmission, it presumably would apply to the 458, FF, F12, etc. as well.

Good post on that here:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/california/556476-transmission-problem-ferrari-california-2011-a.html

When I bought my car, I drove a 2012 California and a 2013 California 30 back to back and the California 30 was noticeably quicker, to me, on the street at least. My car does not have the handling speciale package but I believe you can add it to the car later.

 

I have heard it could happen to any of the DCT but is less likely in 2013 and newer. Also have read and heard that if the service has been performed with some of the newer components its less likely to occur again. Anyone know if this information is true? This is one reason that ive kinda been thinking looking at an earlier model thats had the DCT issue dealt with.

Ironically I was just looking around yesterday while driving around and a local porshe dealer has a 2013 that also has the rear package area like the OP showed in his photo. While i havent looked at more then a few dozen or so Cali's this is the first one ive seen other then the photo the OP posted. While Im not interested in this particular car because of the color combo (its black and I swore to never own another black vehicle) I didnt feel like it was too far out of line in price for the miles and the remaining maintainance plan, and imagine you could haggle a bit as well. I may test drive it though since the Cali 30 is the only one i havent driven yet.

For me what ever I purchase will be a keeper for sure and its also the model of choice for me so im going to make sure its the color combo I want but small paint repairs on bumpers arent a huge issue for me. But Im not the kinda guy that notices some of the signs for things that have been done or need done which is why I agree no matter what a PPI is a must on a vehicle of this price. Last one i popped for a PPI found all sorts of issues, which i assume is why the car was priced where it was. So im also in agreement that it might be a good idea to buy a CPO from Ferrari. I kinda figure at least buying from Ferrari they would disclose whatever needed done (or you would think they would).

No matter what I still read what Cali owners post because its always nice to know what actual owners experiences are. So thanks for any and all advice gets tucked in here.

 

This one will definitely be a keeper for hopefully 5+ years. Then maybe an upgrade to a T or Portofino but I also tend to drive standard vehicles (my Suburban, my wife's Toyota minivan) until the wheels fall off. I'm sure it's different in the Ferrari world. I'm not going to consider the 2010 due to the 'accident' report and since the '12 is slightly less in price. Although, the original PPI from July from Fort Lauderdale Ferrari shows I'll 'need' 2 rear tires, engine mounts replaced, P/S pump is leaking and the AC compressor is leaking. About $6k quoted from Ferrari Greensboro. I'll get an updated PPI this week and maybe an inspection for the LaSalle (not ideal) warranty. I wonder, can they check the zip ties and wiring in the gear box without charging an arm and a leg?

I was in Charlotte today with my wife and took her to see the 2010 (after buying her a couch!) and got the thumbs up. Of course she has no idea the price and doesn't want to know. I have a guy in Texas and one in FL trying to find my color specs in a 2013 but if I wait too long I may wake up and wonder what the heck am I doing even considering such an expensive purchase (for me)! Thanks for the feedback everyone.

By the way, sitting in a deer stand while typing this, looked up and there was a nice 6 point. I shot it. Deer meat anyone?

 

Any Ferrari dealer can sell you the New Power warranty on the car, renewable annually, assuming the maintenance is up to date and the car has not been in an accident.

Almost the entire cost of fixing the speed sensor if it fails is removing and disassembling the gearbox, so there's no way to check that. But the Ferrari warranty would cover it. Not sure about LaSalle but I would want to make sure that the LaSalle warranty details what it does *not* cover as opposed to what it *does* cover because you can bet that it's not going to specifically mention something like a speed sensor inside a dual clutch gearbox, or variators, or any of the other really expensive parts you'll find on a Ferrari as a covered component. Read the fine print carefully and talk to whatever dealer or independent mechanic you're planning on using and find out what their experience with LaSalle is.

 

I rented a T for a week while we were in Vegas while on vacation, and honestly its wht got the wife to ok my future purchase. We really liked it. The one i was considering was a 2010 but it had too many issues and a spotty maintenance record. I hear the 13-14 is really the way to go and since i see the local Porche dealer has one i may stop in and check it out even though it doesnt match any of my criteria (wrong color combo, no rear seat ect.) just to see how it drives compared to the 2010 and the 2016 T.

The tire deal wouldnt bother me, and the engine mount issue wouldnt be a deal breaker either. I wonder if the P/S pump is the pump or one of the fittings/hoses and the A/C pumps is a little baffling but i have heard on older models that it can happen from lack of use.

I dont think they can check the zip ties without opening up the transmission. I saw a post that showed detailed photos of what was involved and it looks like the entire case is opened up. If its had the DCT issue worked on previously it should show up in the service records for the car since i dont think there are any independent shops that can or will work on the DCT, but i could be wrong and someone that knows more about it them I do can chime in. But for the DCT and misc. roof issues alone I think id stick with the Ferrari warranty. But that also my personal preference and it would probably build a good relationship with your nearest Ferrari dealer.

As far as the expense of the car, I really wouldnt sweat it much if you can afford it. I was originally looking at buying a 71 Cuda, which ironically would cost me way more then the Ferrari im looking at. I mean im a car guy and all but im also no spring chicken and i didnt feel like tuning a bunch on an engine among other issues when i just want to hop in and take a drive. I know lots of guys that spend as much on other hobbies they have so i guess its all in perspective. Good luck with your purchase.