For Sale Ferrari Diagnostic Tool

It's no ruckus. You are here offering a product for sale and people are looking for legitimate details. You keep referring the cost of other tools but you are failing to acknowledge what comes with those tools and the support is part of the cost. I said it before and will say again - I would be all over your tool for $2K if you could demonstrate it works for all model you site, all ecu's, all factory tool functions with no bugs.

 

I am interested. Whats is in the "box"? Can you provide a list of included hardware and software?

 

Dino - just want to ask for clarity. Have you (or your hired / employed) developers written this tool (code) from scratch? Or are you using another existing platform?

 

It includes the Samsung tablet with the tool loaded and ready to go. Bluetooth OBD2 connector, and charger.

Dave, as I stated previously, the way this came about was through my ECU tuning company. I had been talking to my software writer for years, complaining that there was not a tool solution that was affordable for the enthusiast to perform diagnostics and maintenance functions for Ferrari (specifically mine). I looked at SD2/3s, Leonardo, Auto Ingenuity and a couple of others, but I couldn't justify the cost for my use. About 8 months ago he presented me with the tool pictured here. He came up with it working with some of his friends, both in the US and overseas. I have been using it almost weekly and it has performed flawlessly.

I have been using it on my car to diagnose (it found an immobilizer issue that had been alluding us), set PIS, read clutch life, etc. I've experimented with the plethora of special functions and everything appears to work as designed. I've used it on 360s, 430s, 458s, F12 and an FF. There are definitely more functions with the newer cars. I have also managed to get into other systems on the CS by going in through Maserati and/or Fiat.

I have previously stated that it uses the Launch platform as a base and was built from that. This tool was something that was designed for me, but I have found it to be so good, I decided to offer it. If you are an enthusiast or a shop, I can't imagine this would disappoint.

You had talked about cables for Ernie and his 348. I had a 348 for 20 years and never found a need for a dx tool of any sort in order to work on the car. Right now I do not have cables for the 348 or 355, but if you have an OBD2 car, it really is great. If someone buys this and has a 360 or newer and doesn't find that it doesn't work, they can send it back for a refund. If someone needs help running it, I can walk them through it. However, after you use it for 10 minutes you'll find that the interface and functionality is easy and intuitive. I love it and will make another if this sells.

The purpose of this thread was to share what I think is something that will help a lot of guys that were in my same position. If someone is in AZ and wants to try it on their car, feel free to contact me.

 

So.... What's it called?

 

Dino - I'm asking specific questions to understand this. It's seems rather bizarre to me that you would hire developers to design the software for a whole bunch of makes / models you don't own or have access to test. So, if I understand you correctly, this is some existing system and you had your guys make modifications? - Is that correct? If so, what is the existing system / software? So, this is not a product you developed?

 

This sounded awesome, but I looked around and it looks like its just the chinese developed Launch X431, the version number from their website matches that in the screenshots Dino provided. This pdf link from the X431 site appears to have all the functionality that Dino mentioned. But maybe his "software guys" somehow got the source to it and modified it to add additional functionality?

 

Dave,

I think you already know the answers to the questions you are asking.

All signs point to Launch X431 which is a OBD II system. China has been building OBD II systems forever so it isn't a surprise that they are now reverse engineering the "factory" codes and parameters accessible through a OBD II diagnostic port. I have Auto Ingenuity which is a great tool for my BMWs but it is basically useless on my 1998 355. If I buy the Ferrari "module" for $3k it will tell me nothing more (again I have a 355) than a $50 OBD II reader.

It would be great to have the coders behind Launch X431 write code to access the other ECUs and their related connectors on a 355 but that is pure fantasy. I just don't see enough demand to build the connectors and replicate the diagnostic capability of a SD1, SD2 or a Leonardo and maintain it for a 355. Additionally, they will make a lot more money from reverse engineering the codes on newer models.

That said....stranger things have happened in the software business.

 

JD - yeah, it seems to all be unfolding now..... But, curious engineers like myself want to know more I'd really like to see what the non-OBDII stuff is and how it would connect - if at all possible. They show 348 so it must do something - right? Maybe not....

 

I think it is possible they have some capability other than OBDII. I noticed on their website they had the early (1992) BMW round port connector as an adapter. China made those diagnostic tools for other companies so it isn't a stretch to think that someone has rounded up that technology and is using a single device to display it. What I have learned is that China's view of intellectual property rights would encourage this type of technology "rollup". Their view would be that ECUs publish data and that anyone can decode it with the right technology. That is partly true. In order to calibrate their results and make them meaningful, they would need a SDx style device to compare it to or the SDx's sensitivity tables. Neither item would be a stretch for a company in China to get.

I haven't looked at SDx device but I will speculate the code is probably a variant of C+ which was popular with diagnostic devices since it could be compiled to run on a number of platforms. Regardless, both China and India are fully capable of reverse engineering virtually any commercial device. Additionally the reference tables are usually support files and can be easily identified.

 

Dave you are wrong on the 348 sort of and thus probably the obd1 355's. I can't remember the details but around the mid 90's I was racing my 348. I had a weird intermittent undiagnosable failure to start. It was bypassed by using starter fluid (ask Ernie). That would make you think fuel problem. I messed with that intermittent issue for months until I ran into one of the 360 Challenge guys at the racetrack and we had a discussion. He was able to hook the SD2 to my car and narrow down where the issue was. It was not exact but fingered electronics to the injectors. I can't remember his hook -up. It may have been like a breakout box between wirng harness and ECU where the SD could see how my car was starting and running once started spiting out a whole hose of data. Taking that SD info I bent the cr@p out of the pins at the main connector block to refresh electrical connections and the problem was solved. In that era we went around the block painfully with Stabilant-22 contact cleaner, sand paper and all the rest. Later the permanent fix was the controversial game changing SRI gold connector kit. So perhaps there is another interface for OBD1 cars or one of the pros can tell you how it is done. I just can't remember.

 

Dino,

The device you have is $2k. There was another thread using the same thing or something similar but it was way cheaper. Chad on Fchat has it on his phone. I'm not sure all the parts you had to buy. There was a cable set off amazon and then the xpro something or other software, then a guy gives you the code to make it work or something like that. What did you do to get up and running with your setup?

 

Carl - I really am not sure what you are talking about. What specifically am I wrong about? OBDI 355's require all SD connections be made via ALDL sockets and ISO cables. Many ECU's of a OBDII 355 require the same. I've only been able to access the engine ECU and F1 TCU via OBDII scoket on my 355. Brake, suspension, alarm, airbag, etc all require ALDL.

 

The story behind the tool I have is as stated above: I own an ECU tuning company. I had been moaning for years to my software writer about there not being a tool that wasn't astronomical in cost which was available for Ferrari. Eight months ago I was presented with this tool. He told me that it is based on a Launch system and he worked with couple of his software connections to build up the Ferrari functions. I have no idea what they did, or do I really care. I have been using it for the past 8 months and it really is great. I have used on the CS, other 360's, 430s, 458s, F12 and an FF. It just doesn't read codes, I have been able to get into most of the car's systems (the newer the car, the better the coverage) and perform many special functions that I'm sure are part of the dealer tools. I don't know of who else on here is doing what. What I know is what you just read.

I had been so happy with it that I thought I would share it, as I know there are other owners (like me), that work on their own cars that were as frustrated as me. That's the end of the story. I was hesitant about doing this because I have been around FChat since just about the beginning and over the years it changed from owners helping other owners to the sea of over analytical 'experts' that want to analyze every syllable and key stroke, finding fault wherever they can. Every so often I get these folks in our ECU business and in my medical practice and at this point in my career I usually show them the door.

At this point I am basically fed up. I have a great tool that works on our cars. If I just keep it in house, that's fine. I stated that if someone wanted it, bought it and it didn't work as stated, I would give them their money back. If anyone has any further questions, feel free to call or PM. My number is 602-358-8883.

 

I've seen first hand what goes into getting a diagnostic tool to function as a factory tool. It's a massive amount of work, unfortunately in today's world the bulk of what comes over from China is a rip-off of existing software. I'm not going to go into details on the inner processes as I'm simply not allowed. Anyone that has access to factory diagnostic equipment and factory level access would see a MASSIVE difference between something like Launch and Leonardo. The level of access and capabilities from a factory tool or the Leonardo is leagues beyond the Chinese tools.

I understand the appeal of a budget friendly diagnostic tool and actually have asked many times for such a thing, but it's not going to happen. Where does one draw the line for access and capability? being only to half see what one is doing or can do will only create problems vs fix them. We have to accept that vehicles today are exceedingly complex and stuffed with ECU's all talking via a closed and now in some cases an open network. The days of DIY at home weekend wrenching is over, gone, bye bye.. for just about any vehicle within the last decade.

Does the launch tool work? I guess so, it reads codes and might have some setting capabilities but I personally would not use it to actually properly diagnose or fix a Ferrari.

 

I'm no genius and I have not taken an out of warrantee car to the dealer ever. I have always been able to figure them out but you do need to use your brain and diagnostic tools when available. An inexpensive tool really only needs to hit the high points that diy people are going to do like setting PIS on clutch or bleeding an F1 system. I don't own a DCT or F1 car but I bet I could figure it out and with some OTJ training may not even need the diagnostic tools I think I need now. I would never buy a car I could not fix. But a $2k device that could set PIS changes my mind. Some other bizzaro issue well it is off to the dealer...or...maybe not... 35+ years working on Ferraris and never run to a dealer or a shop.

 

I've tried to keep current on what going on with vehicle networks and management... I can't keep up, too much to do. So yes I understand that it's possible to suss out an issue or 'think it through' but unfortunately this is not something that is effective, this a problem of what I call integration. There are no longer separate sub systems, the chassis and engine management systems are networked together. How and to what extent they 'com' with each other is left to the individual mfg and their coding. It is simply not possible to sort out what the problem is without having the right access to the network and being able to communicate in the correct sequence. The bulk of engine management is dictated by gov stds, i.e. EPA, then there is the proprietary coding the mfg does to specifically exclude and intentionally make it difficult for the 'buyer/owner' or independent to diagnose and repair as in a great many instances the mfg does not have individual 'parts' to sell or replace but rather entire assemblies or complete units. The 360 does not really fall into this category, the 488 on the other hand... yeah that one does. Even simple things like tire changes are complicated by coding!

 

Dino, the members of Fchat are a group of smart, savvy and successful people and I'd say that most are probably of the type that is used to a certain level of due diligence prior to making purchases of substantial dollars.

At this time, we still don't know much.

All I can gather from the thread is this system is X431. It's unclear if "your software guys" have done any modifications or if this is just the standard offering from X431 (again, you have not demonstrated any of the tools functions nor compared them to the standard X431) It's also unclear if this is a new tool, or used. You have stated in this thread multiple times "I own a ECU tuning company". I've never enlisted the services of an ECU tuning company and know next to nothing about ECU tunes. However, if that was something of interest to me, I'd certainly be asking a lot of questions. So, am I wrong to assume your customer base for that business asks a lot of questions? My point is, probably not much difference than the questions in this thread that you appear to be very offended about.

In my Sticky RX business, our clients ask a lot of questions and I welcome them. Without disclosing trade secrets, I work very hard to explain what differentiates us from the competition. People want to know why they are about to spend $$$ and want know they will get good value.

I'm all for a lower cost, enthusiast tool. But, to compare only cost and not function and testing is just short sighted in my opinion. What about the risk of this tool damaging an ECU? Think that is a possibility? I certainly don't want to find out. Also, most software license and not transferable so I'm not sure about that aspect of this tool either.

In summary, if my comments have somehow offended you, my apologies. But I sincerely feel myself and others are asking fair and reasonable questions and questions you may have not been prepared to answer and based on your last post, don't really seem to care about getting the answers.

 

That is the question, what are the differences between this and the X431?

Without knowing what was changed in terms of functionality I'm not sure how anyone could buy this.

 

I think that a good portion of the people posting here are asking critical questions only because they are potential customers, I would suggest going into detail about the functions and capabilities that you have added over the factory x431 support.

 

Yes I agree with you. But you prove my point at the same time. Guys like you are circumventing our reliance on the Ferrari SD with your tool at 1/10th the cost! Kudo's to you. All a simpleton DIY like me need to do is buy the black box from you. Problem solved dealer out of the loop. What you have done has happened to every OEM and they are trying to prevent us from hacking their proprietary data. They have tried the courts and other forms of control like no more SD's and you have to be accepted to their online system so they can charge and control all the information . That is the future. Complete control. So far the aftermarket has been successful especially where the aftermarket can profit.

 

Carl - I think you have things mixed up.... SMG (Scott) works for Nick Forza's Ferrari and they sell Leonardo / Galileo and it's not 1/10 the cost of SD's. And, coming from a DIY guy would just bought the factory "black box" (SD2), owning the tool, knowing how to use it, and knowing how to do the work are altogether different. My SD learning curve will be very steep.... And, SDX is now available as a brand new purchase. It's not sold via Ferrari. Ferrari's online system is about manuals and documents.

 

Yes, it is I recognize the software.


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It's exactly what I offer but I seen to have a newer update for offline version. And we'll online or offline I can do

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I think I have the same software on my phone. It is called Launch X341 Easydiag

It can definately do many things, but unfortunately it can't do everything, that the original SD2/SD3 testers can do. But then again - we all know their price

Actually I have tested the X431 on my Maserati 3200GT, which is a '99 and has an OBD1 and it works, you just need to find a OBD2 to OBD1 cable.