How much does a re-spray affect value

Exactly. Not everyone who buys a Ferrari buys it for a museum piece. The bottom line is there are so few stick 430's, demand outstrips supply and it'll sell no problem regardless.

 

I thought the current trend for older cars is to have them unrestored. They call it "patina", and it provides a potential buyer with a truer sense of what he's really getting. Accidents can be covered up with quality body work and repaints, but having a car totally unrestored, showing all it's flaws, provides a visual representation of its history. For example, isn't a vintage unrestored Dino 246 worth more than one fully restored? This is especially important for older cars since most, if not all, of their history is not traceable through moderns means, such as Carfax, etc. It's hard to hide the fact if a newer car is in an accident, so a repaint *might* be construed as a positive.

 

Carfax is not always accurate. I know its quite common for owners to quickly have cars repaired and sold after an accident before anything shows up on a carfax. I've also seen many cases where accidents show up on the report YEARS later. Carfax's most reliable source of info is police reports. If no police report is filed, it's unlikely anything will show up on the report. Insurance companies also provide some info to carfax, but they are usually much slower and not all of them report. Lastly, most exotic owners keep high deductible policies and I've even heard of guys paying out of pocket for $10-20k repairs just to keep the carfax clean. This is actually quite common for accidents that occur at the track (where no police or insurance is involved anyway). I've seen cars that have flipped and smashed into walls that have perfectly clean carfax reports.

 

Yes, I know. I didn't state that Carfax is the end-all authority, rather it is one example.

 

Right, but this is why I personally place even more emphasis on a careful visual inspection and avoid cars with extensive paint work. If a seller told me that their 10 year old car needed a full repaint just because of some nicks/dings, I'd be skeptical to say the least. A nose/bumper repaint, sure I can understand that. But a full repaint on a newer car makes me question its history. Even with documentation, I'd question why a full repaint was needed. Were there prior repairs that were done poorly and easily detectable? Imagine buying a car with a clean carfax, paying full market value and then an accident showing up on the report one year after you take ownership. I've seen this happen too many times and the financial hit is remarkable.

 

For the record, that price is not unjustified. I do this for a living. I just bought a half a pint (8 oz) of Azzurro Blu base coat: $48.00. $96 for a half pint of red vinyl spray (UV stable). Primers, sealers, etc. are crazy expensive. I have seen Award winning custom painted cars at the Detroit Autorama that cost way more than $30K. A color change matters very little when considering an award winning repaint since total disassembly will be required in either case to avoid any "paint break lines" and lets not forget the there's the time in the wet sanding, buffing and the total reassembly.

The question originally was: did this devalue the car?

 

$30k is not unreasonable for a quality job. Lots of factors such as who is doing all the disassembly / reassembly.

 

Would be interesting to hear more details on the paint job, e.g. how much disassembly was done and whether it was taken down to bare metal.

 

I don't think thats the point. Whether its a garage queen or a drivers car, who wants to take on unnecessary risk unless the price is compelling enough. Just because something is shiny doesn't mean its valuable. Plus if its a drivers car, the pretty paint job is going to get dinged/nicked eventually anyway. If you buy a car with a bit of "patina", you're more likely to drive it instead of stare at it.

Yes there are few 6spds in the market, but prices are actually on a downward trajectory these past few months (as with most of the ferrari market) and it may not be as hot as you think. There's really no urgency to buy one now and the ones listed for sale have been sitting for months with price drops. Prices are not going to skyrocket overnight if you miss out today. But I do think this particular car would sell fast if the price is compelling enough.

 

I see what you're saying. But it's relative. All Ferrari's (and from what I've seen the entire segment) are down. If manual cars were down 15% in price but F1s were holding steady that would mean something, but from what I've seen all are down.

What I've seen is each and every 430 buyer that I've spoken with has told me "I was looking for a manual but they were priced too high so I bought the F1". That tells me there is alot of demand for that and price doesn't really have to drop. I look at it in a more binary fashion: I want a car X. Can I afford that car? I don't need that car like I do a daily driver, and I want my fun car to be a certain experience. I agree that most who go into the experience don't want to LOOSE money, but when you balance rarity of the 430 stick and the drive it offers.. it's not the same as an F1 purchased for the same time frame. You're going to pay more for an 3-pedal. And if you don't buy it there is someone else who will. The lower the price, the more people will compete with you to buy that car. It's not speculation anymore as it was a year back.. but demand still outstrips supply by a very healthy margin.

 

Well yes exactly. When I bought one of my rare stick/gated Ferraris, I had a bit of the car repainted, because it had a few scratches/scuffs/chips, because these cars sit low, you know. I was aware of the views about value, but I'd rather have new tyres than the originals, and I'd rather have new paint, done properly (this was by a classic restorer) than the original, so my car looks nice. I'd prefer new spark plugs to the originals, as well as oil, coolant, tyre air...and manifolds.
I think the whole paint-fascism thing is a bit weird..but then buying old petrol cars with a manual gearshift is also probably weird.

 

Taking a "newish" car down to bare metal is usually a mistake and unnecessary. A Dino, a 250, or 330 GT, sure. Newer cars often have valuable coatings that are applied at the factory to protect the metals and discourage rust or corrosion.

To be sure though, you are correct, the degree of disassembly is a big factor in a top quality factory looking repaint. I often joke with painters and tell them they have the easiest part of the repaint!

 

I would not think repainting a car lowers it's value (not in the UK) anyway. This is an exotic but it is not vintage. That said I don't understand all this barn find bollocks. I don't want a dull piece of old rusty 'patina' crap in my garage. A museum piece fair enough but surely there are only so many museums.

The only thing I might have done is taken a few pictures for a before and after.

 

But how do all those valuable coatings affect adhesion? In order to properly prep the old finish you would likely end up removing these coatings anyway. For $30k I would expect something more than a scuff and spray.

 

There's a process. It's not just a scuff and shoot. Painting cars today with today's advanced materials is as complicated as it gets. The days of lacquer primers and top coats are long gone and with it the simplicity of the process. If you don't follow the data sheets to a tee, there will be problems. I have a whole cabinet in my shop full of products designed to go over this but not that, to seal up this but cannot be re-coated with that, etc. There are time windows for re-coatability with certain products and others that cannot even be thinned without a special reducer designed for the product being applied. To add, the clear coats recently went through a change in formulation due to VOC regulations meaning I had to ditch my old clear coat gun and purchase a new Iwata for about $700.00

Now you are probably asking: how does that make the job more expensive. Other than the cost of all these special materials (which typically run to a total of $5000 depending on the base color for the amount needed for a total respray) and new equipment as needed; it really doesn't. But keep in mind the time factor ($$) of totally disassembling your F430-- and to do it right in my shop we remove the doors, hood, rear hatch panel, fenders where applicable, to color everything. Meaning all weatherstripping and seals have to be removed. We then rehang the parts in the spray booth for the final color coat to assure a perfect panel to panel layout of the color. Then the parts are again removed from the car carefully in the booth and they are clear coated individually to be sure every crack and crevice is covered properly as factory. This insures there are no what I call paint break lines to be seen anywhere. There is absolutely no way to tell that the car has been resprayed once it is done.

As you can see this takes a very considerable amount of time. And as the saying goes, time is money.

Now after the parts and the car have had about 120 days to cure (dried paint is not cured paint) everything is carefully wet sanded to the customers tastes. Some want a small amount of "orange peel" to replicate the factory look. Most want a completely flat as glass surface. At that point we buff the parts separate from the body of the car. The sanding and buffing stage usually takes 60 to 80 hours. Once everything passes the final inspection, the parts are rejoined with the car. Weatherstripping, all rubber, rubber bumpers, and trim are installed. This is a very arduous process as extreme care has to be in order not to ding or scratch any of the panels.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here. I only write this so yourself as well as others understand that a total repaint of a top flight exotic is very complex. With that said, we of course have no idea if this is the extent to which the car in question was treated during the respray that cost 30K. But what I can tell you is while it will be debated by any Ferrari owner whether or not it is "worth" paying that amount for a repaint what is important to understand is that there is not a question as to the actual cost to do such a job by guys like me who do it. And frankly, I never seem to get paid enough for the stress of it all!

 

I was looking for a 430 three pedal car and a re-spray would cause me to pass no matter what the price. With values approaching $200k, I chose to order a new 488 and keep my ZO6 three pedal car.