Bora, Ghibli & Khamsin | FerrariChat

Bora, Ghibli & Khamsin

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by Longstone Tyres, Oct 5, 2017.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Longstone Tyres

    Longstone Tyres Formula 3
    Sponsor

    Feb 2, 2006
    1,809
    Full Name:
    Dougal
    Though most of my books tend to suggest that all Ghibli's fitted 205VR15 tyres through out it's production, of which we know was the Cinturato CN72, which Pirelli are producing again. I pretty sure that the later Ghhibli's fitted 215/70VR15.

    Khamsin was 215/70VR15

    Bora was 215/70VR15, some cars had 205/70VR15 on the front to make the steering nicer.

    Do you know if these cars fitted Michelin XWX or Pirelli Cinturato CN12?
     
  2. Candide

    Candide Formula 3

    Apr 6, 2017
    1,472
    Monaco
    Later cars, both.
     
  3. Maserati Blue

    Maserati Blue Formula Junior

    Dec 13, 2010
    947
    Europe
    Just for reference:

    Merak SS: Michelin XWX 195/70 R15 (front) and 215/70 R15 (rear)

    Early Meraks came with slightly smaller dimensions: 185/70 R15 (front) and 205/70 R15 (rear)

    Quattroporte III: Michelin XWX 225/70 R15 or Pirelli 225/70 R15
     
  4. Longstone Tyres

    Longstone Tyres Formula 3
    Sponsor

    Feb 2, 2006
    1,809
    Full Name:
    Dougal
  5. Maserati Blue

    Maserati Blue Formula Junior

    Dec 13, 2010
    947
    Europe
    Sorry, no idea about the Ghibli.
     
  6. hyenahf

    hyenahf F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2004
    2,603
    bora xwx...
     
  7. porkchopious

    porkchopious Formula Junior

    Oct 11, 2009
    329
    Oakton, VA
    Full Name:
    David
    I had a 1967 Ghibli and had 215/70VR15s fitted and even if they were incorrect, they just looked so good on that particular car! The tread pattern of the Michelin XWX was oh, so, sexy!
     
  8. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    998
    Yes XWX standard.
    With Pirelli available as a factory option on the Bora (at least on my 1972).

    Regards.
     
  9. Candide

    Candide Formula 3

    Apr 6, 2017
    1,472
    Monaco
    #9 Candide, Oct 19, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
    According to the 1972 Ghibli Owner's Manual (no refs., but AM115 in white and AM115/49 in black on a green front cover), fittings were the followings :

    ----> 1972 = Pirelli Cinturato HS in 205VR15

    1972 ----> = Pirelli Cinturato HS in 215VR15.

    No Michelin or 70 profile mentionned.

    Same thing on the last re-stamped in 200 units original manual dated 1973.
     
  10. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 13, 2005
    91,370
    Fuggetaboutitland
    Full Name:
    Bob
    While everyone restates what they beleive to be the correct tires and sizes from either their owner's manual, a download of one or from Norbye's book on the Bora & Merak please understand that not everything in that book turned out to be 100% accurate and that small manufacturers like Maserati tended to buy parts at opportune times and then used whatever was on the shelf at the time of assembly. Hopefully they didn't lets tires sit around for a long time! :eek: But if one time Pirellis were a better deal than the same size Michelins I can see them switching. This is what makes them vary a bit on construction and undoubtedly turns concours judges into ignorant authoritarians at times. My Bora with 3,000 miles on it came with 215/70VR15 XWXs on it. Those tires had the same production code as the car, well sort of. Maserati lied about the last few Boras and claimed earlier production dates. My tires were all circa 1978. That was the last one off the assembly line. So it would not surprise me if some either came with the Pirellis or were requested that way. My 1970 Espada had the original spare which was I beleive was a Pirelli Cinturato HS 205 VR 15? There was no ratio specified at the time. It was more like an 80 series tire though. The owners manual states a rolling radius (load) of 13.33 inches. While that does seem to indicate that loaded that tire would be the same as the the XWX 215/70VR15 all I can say is that even worn out as my spare was that tire was quite a bit bigger in diameter than the ones on my Bora. Perhaps mine were 215VR15? Anyway it was huge! I have personal early owner confirmation of that from a Lamborghini 400GT owner who has had his car since the early 1980s. But I know that at least some later Espadas did come with the newer XWXs as well. I'm currently running an equivalent that's the same diameter as the 215/70VR15 XWX. Sadly it too is NLA ... :(

    Small manufacturers change things around a lot. An Espada came with either a single distributor, one on each cylinder bank or two on a single cylinder bank! Whatever they had at the time ...
     
  11. Candide

    Candide Formula 3

    Apr 6, 2017
    1,472
    Monaco
    So, no matter in we fit Kumho tyres.
     
  12. Longstone Tyres

    Longstone Tyres Formula 3
    Sponsor

    Feb 2, 2006
    1,809
    Full Name:
    Dougal
    I just can't imagine why you would fit Khumo other than because it's cheap. However lets not get into that.

    the 72 date sort of ties in with my fitment guides, but it was a 70% profile tyre.

    I think both the early Ghibli and the Espada fitted 205Vr15 Pirelli Cinturato CN72 HS tyres (as did the 400GT, and to be honest nearly all the other big top Italian cars (and DB6 and DBS for that matter) between 1964 and 1968. In 68 when 70 profile tyres were invented they started moveing them over to 215/70VR15 XWX

    this is a massive bargain for people that want 215/70VR15 XWX https://www.longstonegomme.it/catalog/product/view/id/1925/s/set-of-4-215-70vr15-michelin-xwx/category/2490/ or https://www.longstonegomme.it/catalog/product/view/id/1926/s/set-of-5-215-70vr15-michelin-xwx/category/2490/

    this is a good picture

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  13. Candide

    Candide Formula 3

    Apr 6, 2017
    1,472
    Monaco
    So, no matter in we fit Kumho tyres.
    Private joke, the Kumho.

    But since we have no official evidence, even in period test that XWX or 70 profiles were used...
     
  14. Candide

    Candide Formula 3

    Apr 6, 2017
    1,472
    Monaco
    Very interesting pic however.
     
  15. Candide

    Candide Formula 3

    Apr 6, 2017
    1,472
    Monaco
    Can we read the pic as :

    205/70 XWX on the leftn then Pirelli HS in 205 and on the right XWX in 215/70 ?

    A vey huge gap in circumference.
     
  16. Candide

    Candide Formula 3

    Apr 6, 2017
    1,472
    Monaco
    So, in your opinion, what should I fit on my 05/1970 SS ?

    I was to buy the XWX in 215/70.

    How can we make sure whether it had Michelin 70 or not ?
     
  17. Candide

    Candide Formula 3

    Apr 6, 2017
    1,472
    Monaco
    Finally, taking a closer look to my documents originally bought to the Factory I found the information, my car left the Factory w/ Michelin tyres :

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    I recommend you to buy the copies of all of your documents.
     
  18. Candide

    Candide Formula 3

    Apr 6, 2017
    1,472
    Monaco
    However, Thx for your kind help...
     
  19. Longstone Tyres

    Longstone Tyres Formula 3
    Sponsor

    Feb 2, 2006
    1,809
    Full Name:
    Dougal
    yep that is correct
     
  20. Longstone Tyres

    Longstone Tyres Formula 3
    Sponsor

    Feb 2, 2006
    1,809
    Full Name:
    Dougal
    Maserati are tricky to find in fitment guides from this period. However these are from a Michelin 1971 and Pirelli 1972 fitment guides. and they are a bit spurious because both these tyre manufacturers had an axe to grind at this point because they are trying to sell 70% profile, hence offering the 70% profile options, and not being clear about cut off dates and changes. ( i hope you can read them)
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  21. Longstone Tyres

    Longstone Tyres Formula 3
    Sponsor

    Feb 2, 2006
    1,809
    Full Name:
    Dougal
    Then these 2 guides are independent:

    this one is an independent American fitment guide which i think is pretty honest.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    then this one is from a 1977 insurance book i sometimes use. which i thinks lists the sizes as the sizes thatere fitted to cars that were for sale at the beginning of the year. in other words though where it states 1972 Ghibli as 205-15 I think that means that the Ghibli's that were for sale in the UK in January 1972 had 205-15 so arguably they might have changed to 215/70 in February 1972. & for t he sake of argument Maserati could have changed to 215/70 in October 1971, but there just weren't any in the UK yet.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Borrani also don't give any real clarity https://www.borrani.com/maserati-wheels/ghibli.html they list all the wheel options as the same years. it would have been nice if they had listed the 6.5" wheel and then said the 7" one came out in 1972, but it's never that clear.

    However all things considered you can have either from this web page https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres/maserati/ghibli.html

    the other good news is that English web page also now have the special offer on sets of 215/70Vr115 XWX so you don't have to test your French any more.

    thiis is our new web site so please let us know if you stumble across any mistakes.
     
    Candide likes this.
  22. Longstone Tyres

    Longstone Tyres Formula 3
    Sponsor

    Feb 2, 2006
    1,809
    Full Name:
    Dougal
  23. JulianMerak

    JulianMerak Formula 3

  24. Longstone Tyres

    Longstone Tyres Formula 3
    Sponsor

    Feb 2, 2006
    1,809
    Full Name:
    Dougal
    I think i have read that article from memory he does go on to mention about how later V8 Vantages fitted 16" wheels which spoiled the car.

    I must say, i drove a V8 Vantage on the 16" wheels and it did seem very much over tyred , i would have loved to have tried it on the 15" wheels with CN12
     
  25. Froggie

    Froggie Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2017
    476
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Serge
    I have found this article which mentions interesting features about tyres used for the AMv8 Vantage.
    https://docplayer.net/53935634-Britain-s-first-super-car.html

    A few excerpts:
    "The early V540 Vantages were fitted with Pirelli's excellent CN12 tyre in the 255/60 VR15 size. It suited the chassis perfectly and possessed very controllable and progressive handling when close to the limit and even over. It combined this with a good ride and low road noise levels.
    However, Pirelli's quality control was not what it should have been and the tyre was withdrawn in late 1978 to be replaced by the P7 in the same size. Handling suffered as a result, the tyre's tread design and square shoulders not to the Vantage’s liking.
    Larger 275/55 VR15 P7's were fitted to improve grip in May 1981 from chassis number V8VOR12307 onwards.
    Unfortunately on Aston's narrow 7" rims the tyres had to be inflated up to 40-50 lb. to stay on the wheels. Ride and handling suffered, needless to say, and it wasn't until a wider 8" BBS rim was became available did the problem get resolved and pressures reduced. Fitting the tyres also required spacers on the hubs and flared wheel arch-es.
    From chassis number V8VOR12360 (including V8VOR12353) 8" BBS rims on new hubs with 275/55 VR15 tyres became standard
    ...
    The first 16" wheels were 3 piece Compomotives that had an unfortunate habit of separating under impact with kerbs. The factory soon recalled them and replaced them with either OZ Ceres or MSW 16" rims.
    Once production of these ran out a switch was made to Ronal wheels. Rubber was now Goodyear 255/50 ZR16 Eagles, restoring the handling to the feel and balance exhibited by the first Vantages back in 1977."

    As I understand it, the poor handling of AMV8's when departing from CN12 tyres was more due to the too big Pirelli P7's on slim 15" rims, to their too square shoulders, and to the need to over-inflate the tyres up to 50 psi.
    A good handling was restored when switching to good 16" wheels and appropriate tyres, even though the aspect ratio and construction of the 255/50 R16 tyres were sportier...
     

Share This Page