Brrrr.... no heat in the cabin | FerrariChat

Brrrr.... no heat in the cabin

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by asgor, Oct 26, 2017.

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  1. asgor

    asgor Formula Junior

    Sep 8, 2016
    705
    Virginia, USA
    Drove the 456 for the first time in cold weather this morning (outside temperature ~45F) and realized the cabin wasn't being heated! All HVAC controls appear to be functional: both fan and air flow knobs do what they are supposed to do, and the A/C compressor works beautifully – in hot weather.

    Even turning the temperature dial all the way to the red dot makes no difference whatsoever: the air that comes out is barely warm (if at all). I played with all control combinations (STOP button on/off, one or both knows on auto, etc.), but no change.

    At a certain point I did get a whiff of warm air for maybe 15-20 seconds but then it reverted back to cold.

    Searching the forums turned up a number of hits having to do with the heating water solenoid control valve, but I am not so sure how to check it for faults.

    Before I take the car to my technician I'd like to see if there is anything I can do on my end – I learned with these cars that sometimes simple solutions can often resolve big problems.

    The input of the collective is greatly appreciated!
     
  2. cwwhk

    cwwhk Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2003
    1,535
    Hong Kong, Tokyo
    Full Name:
    Wayne
    Check to see if the small electric water pump is working. If it is then check to see if the solenoid mono valve opens to let water into heater core. Takes just a few minutes to remove the solenoid mono valve for bench testing with a 12V source. Can easily rebuild if rubber diaphragm is ruptured on the mono valve.

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  3. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    2,239
    Frederick, Maryland
    Full Name:
    Brian Brown
    The valve guts are a BMW/MBZ part that costs under $50 for the kit. It is powered closed, so if you unplug the connector, the heat should go full hot, if not time for a valve rebuild. You can plug a 12v injector noid light into the harness and watch it flash on/off as you change the desired temperature selection.
     
  4. asgor

    asgor Formula Junior

    Sep 8, 2016
    705
    Virginia, USA
    Thank you all for your help. I have ordered the MB rebuild kit and will receive it in the next few days.

    I have a question of a logistical nature: can the MB rebuild part be swapped with the shell unit in situ or does the shell need to be removed from the vehicle? I am asking because removing it does require quite a few additional steps to make sure coolant isn't spilled, etc. In fact... is there any easy way to remove the shell unit without causing a coolant disaster?
     
  5. cwwhk

    cwwhk Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2003
    1,535
    Hong Kong, Tokyo
    Full Name:
    Wayne
    You probably could do it in situ but then you won't be able to bench test if the valve is slightly leaking or not after the rebuild. Regarding coolant mess after valve removal I'd imagine a couple of plastic plugs on the hoses will minimise that problem. Here is photo of valve on my 98 RHD car. Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  6. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    2,239
    Frederick, Maryland
    Full Name:
    Brian Brown
    You don't have to remove the housing from the car to install the rebuild kit. Relieve the pressure in the cooling system by opening and then closing the radiator cap.
    Sometimes it is easier to install the kit if you remove the two screws that hold the valve to the car. Pinch off the coolant hoses. Remove the four screws. Pull out the guts, install the new inner part with wavy spring. Be careful when reassembling to get orientation of everything as original. Don't pinch the main wires from the electrical connector to the large coil winding against the main top plate. Plug it in and you should be good to go.
     
  7. asgor

    asgor Formula Junior

    Sep 8, 2016
    705
    Virginia, USA
    Thank you. I think I have enough information now to give it an educated "go".

    In my car the solenoid valve housing can only be fully accessed by removing the battery = slightly higher hassle factor. I will report back once I receive the MB valve replacement kit and I install it.
     
  8. asgor

    asgor Formula Junior

    Sep 8, 2016
    705
    Virginia, USA
    Fixed it! I swapped in the replacement MB valve (part # 000-835-06-44-MBZ) and I've got heat again.

    Thank you all for your guidance: thankfully these cars are fairly easy to work on (a bit archaic), and in my case I just had to shift the coolant tank out of the way to extract the battery, so that I could get to the mono valve. I swapped the part with the housing in situ, so that I didn't even have to disconnect the coolant hoses. Easy.

    Note: as I think was already indicated in one of the posts above, upon reassembly be sure you get all parts realigned correctly - including the replacement valve oriented with the ink mark rotated nearest to the electric connector.
     
  9. Prit Singh

    Prit Singh Karting

    May 29, 2017
    96
    London
    This explains my issue. No heat inside the cabin and the water temperature is rising around 115c with both fans working in traffic!

    Firstly I noticed someone has repaired the expansion bottle, so I replaced that and topped up with distilled water, however I feel the system still has air.

    Now to tackle the heater valve. The part Bosch number Is 1147412013 and the same valve is fitted to a Rolls Royce.

    If a whole new unit is required a similar valve 64111373188 fitted to various BMW models is available from the main dealer.
     
  10. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

    Aug 8, 2002
    4,137
    Bay Area Calif.
    Full Name:
    Dave
    When either one of you had no heat did you try setting the heat to full hot and still did not get heat.

    Today I had no heat when set to auto and the heat set to 72, even turning the heat up didn't work until I turned it all the way to full heat, then it would still heat on lower settings but I had to do the full heat every time after a shut down.

    I'm wondering if the solenoid valve repair is what I need
     
  11. Prit Singh

    Prit Singh Karting

    May 29, 2017
    96
    London
    Hi

    Yes turned to full heat and still blows cold.
     
  12. bergxu

    bergxu Formula 3

    Aug 16, 2005
    1,305
    OnTheSerpentMound
    Full Name:
    Aaron
    Just a heads up to anyone else needing to do this job; absolutely make sure to get the monovalve repair kit from Mercedes and do not use the aftermarket kit as it's total junk. The monovalve diaphragm commonly fails as age takes its toll and I've had enough (many years as an MB wrench) experience doing them on Mercs to know not to use the aftermarket kit.


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  13. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    38,075
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Wonder if this is another result of earlier owners not changing the coolant regularly because the WSM/maintenance schedule does not have regular change intervals specified.
     
  14. Prit Singh

    Prit Singh Karting

    May 29, 2017
    96
    London
    I think so too. Mine has green coolant. Terry after reading your posts I ordered zerex g-05 from the USA as its not available here and will flush out system on my next service. Many thanks.
     
  15. asgor

    asgor Formula Junior

    Sep 8, 2016
    705
    Virginia, USA
    In my case the problem got progressively worse. Toward the end of last winter I had to turn the heat to "full hot" to get warm air into the cabin, then the first time I tried this season the heat no longer worked even when on the red dot. The valve replacement fixed it - all well now.
     
    Prit Singh likes this.
  16. asgor

    asgor Formula Junior

    Sep 8, 2016
    705
    Virginia, USA
    Perhaps. When I looked at the wire mesh that makes up the core of the valve I ended up replacing it looked all gunked up. The diaphragm (the part that everyone refers to as the one that fails) in my case was intact but I suspect the coolant could no longer freely flow in and out of the valve core for that reason - which likely caused the no-heat issue. It almost looked as if a careful cleaning with a toothbrush would have restored the valve to full functionality, but I didn't want to take my chances having to go through the whole procedure again in case it didn't and just swapped the old part for the new.

    Granted, I have a slightly different coolant setup (the car was converted to EvansCool by the previous owner) and maybe that also contributed to the buildup, as that coolant has a different chemical composition.
     
  17. Aerosurfer

    Aerosurfer Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 21, 2020
    1,302
    Indianapolis
    Full Name:
    Nick
    Bump for an old thread.

    I did my monovalve repair this week and have restored very adequate heat to my car.

    It seems both real Monovalves as well as Mercedes rebuild kits are quite scare now. The only real option was to use the Uroparts kit. Part number 0008350644R Its available everywhere and pretty simple for what it is. Like Asgor above, i found my diaphragm intact and still desecntly pliable, but with just a light smear of long term gunk on everything. Found a good rebuild video to follow on YouTube as well.

    First tested wiring with my Noid light to assure power was getting to the switch.

    Then unsecure collant tank and move aside. Its much easier than it looks.

    Wiggle out the battery and you will have easy access to the monovalve. Not necessarily annoying, but no space wasted on this car. Like i have been told before on these cars, every easy job takes many steps to get to.

    Two 10mm nuts and a tight fit with the cowl above secure the monovalve to the car. Once out remove the 4 flathead screws holding it on. I was unsure if any collant would flow out, have towels ready but fortunately none did. I didn't clamp either hose. Once apart, i used this video as a rebuild reference


    Also made sure the flow restrictor at the bottom was free moving as well in its place. Reassembly was the opposite, just slowly securing the Flathead screws into the plastic housing. Once back to togther, I have heat at both idle and higher RPMs, in climate temp and Red dot settings.

    I'm not sure if its my imagination as well as the cooler weather, but it also seems the car runs (displays) slightly cooler. If simply having all parts of the cooling system functioning in unison is just healthy for the total picture. Did about 160 miles the next day and even in traffic at 70* outside temps, temps barely went to the first mark to the right of the midpoint, but held there.
     

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  18. Hawkeye

    Hawkeye F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 20, 2009
    7,568
    Well done, heat is good!
     
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  19. Mirek

    Mirek Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 20, 2019
    1,276
    Los Angeles, CA
    Full Name:
    Mirek
    I was unaware that there was an electric pump down there until quite recently.
    Awesome job and great information.

    I read this and I think “Dammit, another thing that is just bound to fail on this car”. Almost everything is considered “consumable” like brake pads and clutches after 20k miles or 15 years. Fan motors (from heat), this thing, rubber parts in/around the gas tank, the guides for the door glass, the radiator itself, basically the fuse-board, throttle-cables, the belts, leather, you name it.

    I saw a beat down 2007 Jeep Patriot on the streets in shambles but running like a champ. I grudgingly gave it all the respect in the world.
     
  20. Aerosurfer

    Aerosurfer Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 21, 2020
    1,302
    Indianapolis
    Full Name:
    Nick
    So true indeed. Dont forget about the other other electrical waterpump located in the bowels of the right front wheel well. Mine gave out on me earlier this summer and leaked coolant out in the driveway
     
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