2018 Engine Rule Change

F1 already is unwatchable as the cars sound and look horrific. It will only be worse next season. Ferrari should leave at this point imo regardless and tell the FIA/F1 to pound sand.

F1 is already headed toward a spec series with all their regulations as they've made it clear they want to get rid of the high costs of a pure non-spec series. Since the drirvers and fans don't like having a car back off the throttle to preserve the engine for X races, my idea is the only one I can see making everyone in agreement. A frozen engine for the season will keep costs down from the FIA's view rather than one incrementally developed and a new engine each race (little variable costs when sunk costs are already massive and completed) will allow drivers to race non-endurance style. Fans can still enjoy the races as an engine failure/change in a race won't affect following race grid positions and aero can still be updated, which fans can see (unlike engine upgrades).

None of this really matters as F1 is boring and not worth watching. I switched to MotoGP a few seasons ago and am not going to watch F1 anytime soon.

 

I'm starting to think this is the FIA's plan to make F1 more interesting... 3 PU's... tons of grid penalties for everyone.= potential for different winners. How pathetic. How sad for the fan who travels to race only to see his favorite driver starting at the back because Max or Kyvat rear-ended them the prior race and now have a bad gearbox. It's just stupid. The whole thing is stupid.

 

This is exactly what we had when RBR/Vettel dominated...a frozen engine with no penalty for replacement. The racing was horrible...that's the era that felt the need to introduce DRS because the racing was so bad otherwise.

 

How is that any different than Mercedes these last years? Probably a lot more expensive for the competition now. You can't have freedom for development and keep costs low...it's a balance of how much you want of each as it will affect the other. At least the cars sounded good then as well. I would take that over the current crap any day of the week.

 

A huge difference is the last race we had the first four cars cross the line within seconds of each other. The racing is actually better than it has been for quite some time...

Your post highlights the challenge that Liberty is facing. You want a freeze...many others in this forum want unlimited development...others are scattered somewhere in-between.

 

The Mexican GP had 52 overtakes....of which 20 of them were under DRS.

The top 3 maybe can't come within 1.5 sec. of each other due to their wake but to the rest of the field, overtaking is somewhat easy for them. But I get what your sayin.

 

Brazilian GP is what I meant to say.

 

Bas, I did not say it was "great racing"...when is the last time F1 had great racing.

Currently, the winner is not lapping podium finishers...as was the case not too long ago.

 

Horner does not like the 3 engine rule for 2018 and voiced it prior to the Brazilian GP at a strategy meeting; wants to keep it at 4. Ferrari scuttled that by saying they have invested alot of time and resources (to the tune of over 500 million Euro's) to engine reliability to last the mileage.

Horner tried earlier this year(Italian GP) on the engine rule change but no one was listening.

 

And this is why the teams should be kept out of this sort of decision. Blind self interest on both sides will always dominate and decision. Bad for the sport.

 

So you want to give them rules, let them spend the money on R&D and then you want to turn around on them at 5 min to 12? Of course there is self-interest to protect their investment.

 

I call ******** on the half a billion figure from Ferrari.

 

+1 seems a bit dramatic...oh wait..Ferrari

 

Italian accounting

 

Yes, because as soon as he has a gap he is slowing down as much as possible to safe the engine....the second one seeing that he can not catch the one in front does the same...
Remember in 2012, one of the "boring dominant RB years" we had 7 different winners in the first 7 races...does not happen today anymore either

 

[QUOTE="P.Singhof, post: 145683964, member: 32841]Remember in 2012, one of the "boring dominant RB years" we had 7 different winners in the first 7 races...does not happen today anymore either[/QUOTE]

Including F1 legend Pastor Maldonado...so, clearly in 2012 the cream was rising to the top.

My point is simply that the racing has improved in the past few years. There are definitely things that can be done to make it better, but some of the wholesale changes being suggested have either been tried before (without success) or are so extreme as to guarantee another few years of one team that "got it right" before the others.

The power units are not the problem and by focusing so much on them, nothing will be fixed. Cosworth, Ilmor, Aston, Porsche...can all join the parade.

 

Oh, did it? Half of those "boring years of RB dominance" we actually had RB and Ferrari (with McLaren in the mix) fighting for the title....
Over the last 3 years we had an artificial "duel" of two team mates with nobody else really having a chance...I do not see how this was an improvement, race were only interested if someone of the major players had to start from the back due to grid penalties (again artificial)...
This year was actually the first of the hybrid era where we had something like a title fight.

 

Including F1 legend Pastor Maldonado...so, clearly in 2012 the cream was rising to the top.

My point is simply that the racing has improved in the past few years. There are definitely things that can be done to make it better, but some of the wholesale changes being suggested have either been tried before (without success) or are so extreme as to guarantee another few years of one team that "got it right" before the others.

The power units are not the problem and by focusing so much on them, nothing will be fixed. Cosworth, Ilmor, Aston, Porsche...can all join the parade.[/QUOTE]

The racing has not improved it's gotten far worse. Now we're at 1.5 secconds of dirty air, FIA's idiotic delta wing concept was never going to work in any case, but that it made closer following worse was the real surprise...And nothing being done about it is adding insult to injury.

I agree the engines aren't the big culprit in all this, since they don't really affect aero, but to say the V8's where the problem? Erm no. The V6 Hybrids are part of the problem however. More fuel saving, more component saving, incredibly complex electronics and ''saving battery power'' all this over-managing is working against the goal of it all: RACING.

Back in the V8 era it was more simple (engine wise): V8 engine with KERS bolted on, 6.6s a lap of use on that. Blow an engine and it's a 10 place penalty. Simples. The problem then (as now) was that the aerodynamics prevented close following (though to a lesser degree). Make the wings less wide and fewer elements, add venturi tunnels and clean up the body
and it's sorted: Much less dirty air, venturi tunnels picking up lost downforce (and cleaner air); they'll be just as fast as now but much closer following.

Endless overtaking (like Brazil last week) shows exactly why we need to get rid of DRS immediately. All the slower cars are zero challenge for the top cars, there's no skill involved in overtaking these, just wait for the first straight and DRS pass. They've put these silly ''start from the back'' penalties in but with DRS the only thing it does is prevent us from seeing what we actually want: a fight with a challenge. Pre-DRS days starting from the back was a proper challenge and getting near the front required real skill. Even taking slower cars was more challenging then. DRS is a pointless invention and has taken almost all skill away from passing. None of the passes made with DRS are memorable in any way. The onyl passes people talk about are the ones made without DRS...

 

Who ever said that the V8s were the problem...? I'm in complete agreement that the aero is (and HAS BEEN for quite some time) the problem...I don't like DRS, but until the aero issues (that prevent close proximity) are dealt with, it has become a necessary evil.

Rose tinted glasses are preventing many here from remembering how boring and processional the racing was...

Guess what year DRS was introduced:

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Many overtakes does not equal great racing.

 

Again, I agree completely. On the other hand, very few overtakes is (and WAS) boring racing.

The first year of the hybrid PU was horrid...the next year, less so...this year was actually pretty good (if one can look past strategic and on track blunders).

Just about the time things are settling in and some form of parity is close, people are screaming for wholesale change...change in F1 almost always leads to a few years of very lopsided competition.

 

Would the following partial 'solution' be possible to avoid the potential problems caused for Honda and Renault by the 3-engine rule?

What if TR-Honda and the 3 Renault powered teams agree - perhaps already before the start of the season - to all take 3 new complete power units for each car at Monza. Honda has done multiple swaps before at the same race and as far as I recall the FIA did not object to that. They will get a lot of grid penalties at that single race (all set 75 places back?), but potential points losses may be limited since 8 cars will get the same number of grid penalties AND it being at Monza where overtaking is possible. Monza is about halfway in the season and hopefully Honda and Renault can make it to that race using just three engines. It is also after the summer break, just about three months before the end of the season, so hopefully they can use the latest technology that they wished to race in the season for the 3 new engines.

This way Honda and Renault can finish the season using 6 power units per car with minimal points losses and within the current rules that Ferrari and Mercedes do not want to change.

Ferrari should be happy with this since it reduces the competition for the victory at their home race.

 

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/133373/f1-set-to-return-to-twostop-races-in-2018

The over worked 3 engines will get a break lol