MCLAREN 720S OR 488

The prices in the ads for the 720 are quite a bit higher than what you are quoting which is what I was referencing. Up to almost $200k more.

 

Porsche Turbo

 

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Some nonsense here suggesting the above ‘justifies’ the cost differential.

- McLaren’s carbon monocoque (takes 4 hrs to produce against the LaF, 918 etc’s hundreds of hours) is not more expensive to produce than Ferrari’s aluminium tech, for which there has been huge investment. It is not correct that carbon automatically is better than aluminium. These are roadcars not racecars. The comparison must include CHASSIS STIFFNESS (I think they are about equal but it’s hard to find real engineering data - someone on MacLife mentioned this a long while ago, quoting specific data but I can’t verify this), CRASHWORTHINESS which is all about predictable deformability over a multiplicity of crash types - not just “carbon has higher specific strength so it crashes better” which is rubbish, WEIGHT which favours carbon though the actual tub weights are not too dissimilar, and QUALITY/REPAIRABILITY for which aluminium is generally considered to be a better long-term bet.

Overall McLaren’s Carbon tub is interesting, especially in Spider form, and represents a good solution but the only one they could use because the cost of investing in aluminium production would have been unmanageable when they started.

- Butterfly doors? Nice for some, a pain for others. If they were automatically a justification for extra cost/price wouldn’t more expensive cars like the Bugatti Chiron have them. This is nonsense and falls in the realms of ‘preference’ - some will prefer them, many won’t.

- Dry weight, yes, agreed.

- Dyno test? I prefer not to use fan speed dyno tests, or any test at all really. If pushed I prefer someone like AutoBild’s comparison which is interesting. Shows the 488’s actual power to be closer to the 720’s actual power than the claimed figures suggest. But really, who knows? Best guess is that the difference between them is as quoted. In the end it makes no real difference, use your butt dyno. I have enclosed a pic of the test results.

- Aerodynamics. I couldn't find any figures for the 720 other than McLaren’s press release “double the 650”. The 488 on the other hand is mightily impressive. Sportauto’s test (yes, the Germans again...) showed the 488 GTB to have 82kg front and 123kg rear at 200km/h - more even than the 991 RS. The 650 was measured at 2kg front and 62kg rear. So the 488 looks like it generates more downforce than the 720......without the rear wing. This is the clever bit and personally, when buying a non-track version of a supercar, Ferrari’s insistence on the car being beautiful and not relying on external addenda is to my preference.

- Suspension. No idea which costs more but I like Ferrari’s system better. As do most journalists. The McLaren system is technically clever and they famously do not use a mechanical LSD, choosing software instead.

- Interior and exterior design. Put simply, I prefer the Ferrari. A totally subjective opinion but the thing about styling is you don’t ever pay extra for it. It basically costs the same to style a nice car as it does a not nice one. Instead, the styling reflects priorities. There is basically a trade off between perfect styling and perfect engineering because the two intersect with each other. If the designer says “put whatever chassis you like in it but don’t alter my styling” the engineering gets compromised. If the engineers say “put whatever design you like on it but don’t change our chassis engineering” the styling gets compromised. The bigger the budget, usually the higher the equilibrium point. In other words, more money and more experience helps you find better solution to this trade-off (for example Ferrari’s aero, derived from their mega factory wind tunnel investment).

A totally subjective area though. But I don’t see how the design ‘justifies the cost’ except to you.

And that is the point isn’t it? The only way to answer cost-justification is “what is someone prepared to pay for it?”

 

Luke, it is clear that you do not like the McLaren. Certainly you can pick and choose which periodicals you consider reliable (Autobild). Your comments admittedly are purely subjective and that is your right. Enjoy your car, the 488 is certainly beautiful and a wonderful machine but we all know it is no match for the 720. It just isnt or I would have bought one. I do believe that McLaren will push Ferrari to elevate their game though and the next version of the 488 could be a completely different story. In the meantime the car-war rages on and gives us something to debate while we (hopefully) are concurrently enjoying a cocktail.

 

Oh and I thought some of you would enjoy this autocar review which to me seems unbiased.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/video-mclaren-720s-2017-review-it-488-gtb-beater

 

I doubt you will win many arguments advocating carbon tubs have less intrinsic value over an aluminum chassis, especially when it comes to crash worthiness and repairability. Since when do you repair a super car, let alone one with chassis damage. In 99.99% of the times, the owner claims a total insurance loss. And BTW if the tub is in tact, Mclaren will rebuild the car, would not make sense for an every day driver but ask Rowan Atkinson if it was worth it to rebuild his F1

https://jalopnik.com/rowan-atkinson-just-sold-his-twice-crashed-mclaren-f1-f-1710189175

Recent 570s rollover. Driver and passenger walked away with minor injuries. Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Said sound is worse and fit and finish is worse than 488. Well, again, one review doesn't make a car. However, all that matters is you are happy--that is what counts because you put your $$ where your thoughts are. Now we know the latte holder works (if you tested during your 6 hour drive), but curious about that lack of 'engagement' two owners I've talked to experienced after about a month and honeymoon faded. Look forward to 3 more weeks of driving and you can update us--oh yeah, and track day.

 

Meant to add this link as well--not a great review. And before you say her opinion doesn't count, neither do any other so called 'auto journalist'.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-20/mclaren-720s-review-for-280-000-it-s-a-little-awkward

 

HOCKENHEIMRING Kleiner Kurs: 1.07,0 min.
In this regard the Germans have written the following: "Why was the 488 GTB 1.3 seconds slower in the test on 20th March, 2016? In the old test, the laps were driven with used Cup 2 tires. In the new test, the first test laps were already performed with used tires, and for the fast lap, a completely new set of Cup tires were then installed. Already after this single fast lap, the tires have degraded again, the delta was around one second...".

When it comes to track numbers: it is all about tires, Tires, TIRES!
(Therefore I am very proud about the time of my 650S on its old Pirelli P Zero Corsa "Gummies". Give me the right black weapon and I'll turn circles around the 488...)

 

I’m wondering what you think the roof is made of?

As for Rowan Atkinson, the F1’s carbon tub is a different animal to the 12C/650S/675LT/720S.

There have already been a number of fatalities in McLarens, including a staff member heading to Goodwood. Conversely, there are many examples of people walking away from Ferrari crashes that seem unlikely. As I said, there is much more to crashworthiness if you care to investigate. I’m not saying carbon is not a good idea - it certainly is. But don’t automatically assume that just because a car has a carbon tub it must be better than one without. As well as good materials it takes good design, excellent testing and development and a bit of luck during a crash to ensure safety.

 

Of course, tyres are crucial. But the point about which is faster, once you have worked out that it is not especially relevant to what makes a good car, is that on equal tyres is the only way you can work things out. For a 650S on new tyres to beat a 488 on worn tyres doesn’t mean too much. Unless either the 650 or 488 driver is grinning from ear to ear. Then it means really a lot, regardless of tyre!

 

I’m not against McLaren - I’m a Brit and I also have an indirect link into the company. I bought one, enjoyed it and was treated well. I just conclude that I prefer Ferrari for a number of reasons. I totally understand people who prefer McLaren. What I tend to ‘call out’ (if that is the right term) is comments that suggest there is evidence one is better than the other, which I just believe can only ever be subjective. McLaren folks tend to use the fact that the 720 is faster as ‘evidence’ that the car is better, but if that were the case wouldn’t the Merc (quicker on track according to one of the US mags) or even Tesla's new roadster mean that the 720 is now behind those cars in the pecking order? Frankly, that’s nonsense and I would have the 720 over either of those cars in a heartbeat.

Instead, I like to hear people’s opinions as to what they like about a particular car without the need to conclude that one is categorically better than the other just because it is the car they bought and it therefore excels, in their mind, at attributes they hold dear. That leaves no room for valuing other attributes that people with different requirements value. That’s why it’s nonsense.

I’ve never said the 488 is better than the 720, 675, 650 or 12C. I have only ever said what I personally dislike about some of those cars or why I chose the 488 over some of them. I actually chose the 12C over the 458 Italia and if I went back I think I would do so again (well, if we ignore depreciation I would). Unlike many others I always leave room and respect for those who think differently and I don’t think it’s too much to ask for comments that come the other way to do the same.

 

My thoughts on the 720S, 488, Performante.

 

Tire development is currently extreme: the product cycles becoming shorter and shorter, the performance capabilities are getting stronger and stronger, customers are in the meanwhile ready for extreme compromises (a Cup2 tires is more or less undriveable in the rain) and in the meantime, tires are being developed for very specific cars and models. And why this tire war in the super sport car segment? The car technology is maxed out since many years, significant performance improvements are difficult to realize with pure automotive engineering. Result: horsepower figures (relatively easy to advance, easy to market) which no longer make sense and extreme tires (the only part which still puts a lot of potential).

 

While tyres are very important it's a mistake to dismiss automotive progress.

 

I placed a deposit today for the Huracan Performante Spider, FYI.

Tempted by a 488 Spider, but it lacks the drama of the Huracan. The 720 I am not enamored with due to lack of emotion.

 

Fair enough

Performante is bad ass I may order a spider as well. There certainly is no match for the sound it makes.

 

The funny thing is that I generally prefer hardcore, raw sports cars. My 430 for example had the suspension upgraded, headers, S-line exhaust and tuned. The sound was ridiculous - I thought the windows would shatter at the shop when they were tuning it on the dyno. My last few Porsche's pretty much the same. I want a Performante, I will probably get one BUT I freaking love this Mac. I want to drive it every chance I get. I just like looking at it. Everything has a purpose like it or not. If I keep it long term (for me thats over a year) I will likely put a more aggressive exhaust although I do like the fact that I can use the BT on a call and have a decent conversation.

 

Honeymoon always fades for me but for now I am in enamored with this car. I am in line for a Performante Spider and 720 LT so I have something else to look forward to.

 

The fact that she required an orientation says enough - she should probably be writing about something other than cars.

 

I don't get why the Aventador S or even, more ridiculously, the Bugatti Chiron were considered rivals in the text. Typical of a journalist and non-owner. The bizarre part was complaining that going fast in a well made car may get you a speeding ticket. Perhaps if it was very clanky and hard to drive above 55 mph it would have received a better review. Likely a heavily used entry level Kia or Hyundai more to her style. I hear they are less awkward.

 

What comes after enamored phase? Oh a Spider and LT -- nice things to look forward to indeed!

I had a feeling you were going to say that about the reviewer LOL.

 

The Mclaren 720s is a stunning car... Just seen this at a local dealer.....
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I would rate this color as terrible though... but it's a matter of personal taste.

 

I would have it wrapped immediately if it were given to me then all is good.