#1451 GT Going Up For Auction

Tipo 128F was a non standard engine for production California's, so how 1451 GT could entered in Le Mans in the GT category?

 

A number of other LWB Californias also had an outside plug tipo 128F engine. 128F outside plugs engines also used in 250 GT PF Coupe, 250 GT PF Cab S2 and GT/E.

A pic of 250 GT PF Coupe (with Comp. engine) 1743GT's chassis plate which shows the 128F stamping on the plate.

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No matter how much money someone has - he can`t buy good taste or style!

 

^^ I love that engine. Velocity stacks. High lift. High compression. Etc.

 

Steve: 128DF vs. 128F engines: Basically a 128DF engine is an outside plug motor, but still with hairpin valve springs. True "F" engines use coil valve springs. Also other differences between a 128DF and a true 128F are a "D" oil sump, water pump and oil pump. True "F" engines use later versions of these parts with "F" part number prefixes. On a DF engine, the chaincase is still a "C" type unit, while a true "F" motor has a chaincase with a "F" prefix in the part number. DF engines used the ST207 distributor while true F engines had S85A units. Personally, I have not seen a set of Build Sheets using the "DF" motor identification. The factory just called them "F" on the sheets. However, if you examine the actual parts used, the differences appear. By this above definition, even though 1451 has Build Sheets labeled as a 128F, the engine is to 128DF specs.

 

Excellent Dyke!

 

Excellent info, Dyke. Thank you very much for your reply. As there is such a big difference between a 128D engine and 128DF and 128F, do you think that 1451 could have initially been built with a 128D engine as the chassis plate says? Could it possibly have run at Le Mans with the 128D inside plug motor and then went back to the factory to have the engine replaced with the 128F (DF spec) outside plug engine but the chassis plate remained stating 128D before being shipped to NART/Chinetti/Grossman? It's been stated that 1451 wasn't properly finished for Bob Grossman to race it at Le Mans having an unproperly painted body and rags on the seats. It's also been stated that some of the 250 GT LWB Interim Berlinettas initially had inside plug engines that were replaced with outside plug engines at the factory. I believe one such LWB Interim example may be 1519GT which has the 128DF engine, yet the plate states 128D. Although the Classiche report says the engine on 1519 has not been replaced and is the original unit I think that means since it last left the factory as it also states the disc brakes on it are original and were not replaced but this car initially had drum brakes that were replaced with discs at the factory.

 

The only period image of the 1451 GT engine I have. Hard to say this is inside plug motor or outside plug one.

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Steve: 1451 ran Le Mans with the 128DF engine. Engine completed June 13th, dynoed June 14th, car completed June 15th, Le Mans June 20-21. Typical of the Italians, everything at the last minute. As for 1519, engine completed Sept 5th, dynoed Sept 7th, car completed Sept 16th, converted to disc brakes March 3, 1960. 1519 does not have a "complete" 128F engine, but DOES have coil valve springs. Also, my error from previous post, 1519 Build Sheets for engine are labeled 128DF. As is typical of the day, little consistency in record keeping.

 

Many thanks again, Dyke. So 1451 and 1519 never had inside plug 128D engines fitted and the 128D stampings on the chassis plates on both cars are in error?

 

Steve: I would not say the chassis plates are "in error", rather that is how the plates were stamped by the factory. Probably the man who stamped the plates was not totally understanding of the technical variances in the new engine configuration.

 

Thank you, Dyke.

Don't know if true, I read in a Conceptcarz article that Grossman blew the engine of 1451 up at Watkins Glen in 1959 and was replaced. They must have repaired the blown up engine as it's described as matching numbers.

 

Oh no....what a pity...

 

250 GT LWB California Spyder Comp. 1603GT has a tipo 168 engine and is confirmed by the build sheets, yet the chassis plate states 128F.

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For Sale ................ Re-Sale Red

Copley Motorcars
https://copleymotorcars.com/?showroom=1959-ferrari-250-gt-lwb-california-competizione-s-n-1451-gt-2

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Just awful. Again. What’s wrong with this guy. Que Stronzo.

 

FIFY

 

1451 GT ...... it's baaack. and it's a bargain!
Amelia 2025 - Saturday, 08 March
https://www.broadarrowauctions.com/vehicles/am25_r039/1959-ferrari-250-gt-lwb-california-spider-competizione

$18m in Dec.'17 >>> https://rmsothebys.com/auctions/ny17/lots/r031-1959-ferrari-250-gt-lwb-california-spider-competizione-by-scaglietti/

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I am going to go with somewhere around $8 or 9mm.

 

1451 GT is a true Competizione version of a 250 GT LWB California Spider with a competizione spec engine and competition history unlike dealer claims made for another aluminium bodied 250 GT LWB California version with a standard engine and no competition history.

 

Not all aluminium bodied 250 GT California Spiders are Competizione versions.

 

I remember seeing a white comp spyder in the Monterrey historic pits and just was WOW !

 

Sounds like a real Competizione with a comp engine with high lift cams - SWB #2015 GT.

 

Sale at under 9m ? as painful as Tesla stock..

 

Lost $1m per year. Either you don't care about losing $9m or you really need cash?