How Much You Guys Think?

Im quoting you and the other guy. It doesn't matter if you would pay 120K for a mustang. People do and will. Did I say it should be worth More or the same as a Factory Manual. No. Properly somewhere between F1 and a Factory Manual.

No one flamed the guy for converting and selling a 360 CS. I like how I'm catching all of the heat and criticism. It's great to be perfectly honest. I've had 7 Phone calls since 4PM today, guys with 355's 360's 430's scuds, even 458.

 

My guess is +/- $90K

 

I'm obligated to point out the absurdity of describing 50,000 miles as "high" on a car built in 2006.

 

It´s going to be cheaper then an original MT of course but not that much. Maybe 20k less. The main issue with this car is the crazy obsession with mileage among the Ferrari owners and also the ugly styling and worn interior. This could be a much easier sell if the vinyl wrapping/stripes was removed and the interior was cleaned and repaired.

 

That´s because most Ferrari owners buy their cars as jewellery and not the driving machines they are supposed to be. They need to be able to show off and lose as little as possible on the selling day.

 

Looks absolutely stunning in person and turns more heads now than it did out of the box. We are happy with it. To each their own. It is only vinyl...

 

To me the vinyl in combination with the worn interior suggests that the car has been in the hands of a person with a heavy right foot who didn´t spend so much on maintenance. This could be wrong but that´s the image i get.

 

I agree with pretty much everything your saying except for one thing. This will not be common place so it wont ever bring down values of factory gates. However there is a very small market for it. I get emails all the time asking me if i have any conversion kits for sale. I like the F1 system, its fun to flip them paddles but i myself always had that uneasy feeling that i was gonna get stuck somewhere. And thru emails im getting the same message that their concerned about it or they already have f1 issues so they wanna convert. I hear some say that oh i never have problems with my f1 and its solid as a rock, but they have 12k or 15k miles on it and THEY NEVER DRIVE THEM,,,makes me shake my head. Now if someone say i have 60k miles on my f1 with no trouble then i say great. Thats what we all wanna hear. But im i firm believer that as the f1 system ages with miles it will be more troublesome but thats just my opinion. Ive read about alot of issues and i have fixed some. And i also agree with your price point. This particular car or any 360 or 430 converted car is worth at least what an f1 car is. This car is not a collectors its a driver car. Anything over 25k miles is not collector anyway in my opinion.

 

I remember reading many posts about what the market would be for converted manuals. I'm looking forward to seeing the outcome.

Personally if the price delta was high enough vs a factory manual I would have no problem owning a converted car.

 

I rather not comment on the for sale thread, to respect the seller and not derail a sale.

But I think that the seller, purposefully did not disclose the F1 conversion in the for sale ad on Fchat, is super shady (regardless if the car is actually 100% up to par or the quality of work on the conversion).

It just tells me that 1) the guy is trying to sell it for the full gated collect-ability price, which is fair if a bit dishonest or worse 2) the seller is also dishonest about other conditions of the car in the hope of maximizing the sale price.

 

I missed that the car was offered for sale here and that some ranges of price were thrown out by the OP in the ad. I see one other gated 430 on the market now for 210,000 with 6,500 miles car and a nice spec. Another is 149K with 22K miles. Is that all of them on the market now? I only checked ebay because am lazy.

We've got BAT with some low ball bids @ < 70K
a collector car asking 210K
a 22K mile example at 149K
this car looking for > 130K

Red Ferrari is a plus

 

Art, didn't realize this thread I started will stir the pot.

430 conversion IMHO is much more complex to the 360 which will make buyers more worried. The 430 requires the engine loom to be replaced plus other stuff where as the 360 didn't need it. For the 360's it's a true remove and replace with factory genuine parts situation, not so much to the 430. I've talked to couple of folks who wanted to convert or in the middle of converting their 430 that eventually gave-up due to the complexity and dash errors it caused. I'm glad to hear that you guys got it figured out after a while but to some buyers this translates to complexities when it's time for service. Not me, but I know most buyers would be worried because of the complexity of the conversion for the 430s.

The 360 conversion took only 2-3 days to complete with literally no research or complexities involved because it was a simple swap of parts, hence I call it more of "UNconversion" and simply unveiling the true power-train of the 360. The hardest part for the 360 is sourcing genuine parts, that's about it. 360s are designed to be gated, not so much for 430s which is more focused to the F1 tranny. Don't shoot the messenger here, I've read this in the past multiple times.

As I mentioned previously, I think this would sell more than an F1 but less than factory gated and started this thread due to my curiosity of what peeps here would think. Surprised that some postings here even suggest that it should sell no more than a 430 F1 which I'm not sure if I agree BUT this is the main reason why I started this thread.

In any case, Goodluck with the sale!

 

I think it's catching more criticism because 430s are designed with F1 as the primary focused hence the complexity / risk of the conversion. Compared to a 360 (CS or not), is simple swap due to it is designed with gated as the primary focus. (Read this somewhere multiple times in this community).

 

Dresstless, and guys, I have converted 2 F430,s. Converting a 360 and 430 is exactly the same except for the engine harness. Once you replace the engine harness in the 430 and then you get the instrument cluster reprogram just like you program a 360 instrument cluster all the lights go out and never come back. I have the experience with this

 

This my guess too.

 

this is incorrect as well. The 4:30 is designed the same way a 360 is. They are both design to be either a manual shift or an F1. When converting a 4:30 the hole was there for the cables just like the 360. Believe me when converting there are no difference between these two cars except for the wiring harness

 

This is what probably added fuel to the fire.

 

I think there are a few people here that are too close to the project to look at anything objectively....it's a great car, but you can't throw a V8 in a V6 Camaro and call it a Z28. It's still a base model with a different engine. Is it worth a little more than a regular F1 430 with 50k miles? Of course, it's got a cool conversion that makes it more desirable than a standard. Is it worth as much as a factory 6 speed 430, who's entire premium is derived from it's rarity from the factory? No way in any dimension. The biggest issue is that it was listed on this site as a manual 430, a highly desirable model because so few of them exist, when it truly isn't. The folks offering it obviously know their stuff, so they know better. If it was listed as a manual conversion, this would not even be a discussion.

That being said, it's a cool car that I would love to have. I have a gated 360 that I definitely paid a premium for because it was gated from the factory. Had I known how simple it would be (by comparison, of course) to convert an F1 to a manual, I may have gone that route, but of course I would never expect the value to be the same as a factory gated car.

 

Looks like a business opportunity to me now that it's all figured out. Am pretty sure your seeing this the same way as your a businessman yourself and already flew to collaborate with a shop. The key though is to make sure to mention in future Classifieds subject that it is a conversion to not ruffle any feathers.

The bigger business opportunity here is to be able to have complete conversion kits available with step-by-step for any shop to follow. Not so in converting them yourself and selling. The strong market are current F1 owners who already been through several F1 issues, not buyers looking for an 430.

I'm pretty sure that a lot of F1 owners that's having countless issues will be more than willing to dish-out money to a conversion compared to dishing the same amount of money for fixing expensive F1 components. IF THEY KNOW HOW TO DRIVE STICK.

 

You're changing powertrain. No powertrain was changed here, no drivetrain was changed.

 

Well said Matt.

 

the 430 has a timing chain. 50k is NOT high mileage!!! Ferrari people need to get over their mileage phobia...
the only thing that matters is condition.

I would of course be cautious of conversion. I would be surprised if that is the only "work" that has been done.

 

as i mentioned. Both 360 and 430 are the same when converting except for the wiring harness. There is no other work that needs done between the two except for installing a wiring harness. Once everything is stalled you send out the instrument cluster as you would jn both cars. The instrument cluster in both cars get reprogrammed per manual shift mode and the car is good to go

 

Looking through the comments, the seller didn't originally disclose that it was a conversion on BaT either.

Seems to me its a $90k car as an F1, with the manual swap adding maybe $5k to that.

 

you're not getting 35,000 in parts and labor for 5K.

This whole conversion deal is completely blown out of proportion. From the comments over the last few days. Everything seems to be a conversion if it didnt leave the factory that way.

That Said:
- Changing a light bulb is a conversion
- adding a turbo charger to a car thats N/A is a conversion
- Replacing a water pump from a bosch to a valeo is a conversion
- Removing factory wheels and replacing them with aftermarket is a conversion
all these cars should now be devalued and salvage titled.

Unreal.

People are missing the fact Ferrari produced a car with a Manual Transmission. (A TRUE MANUAL TRANSMISSION) there are 2 options. One has a hydraulic set shifting forks in the transmission into gear, the other parts produced by Ferrari are for Manual selection by the driver. These are called INTERCHANGEABLE parts. For the Same Car, By the same Manufacture, it doesnt matter if Luigi put them in or Vladi in Russia. The car is still the same car, serving the same purpose, from the same manufacture.

Thank god i didnt "Convert" a twin turbo set up on this car and get bashed that the car is worth $12,000.00