2 year old "new" timing belts okay? | FerrariChat

2 year old "new" timing belts okay?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Ghostdiver, Dec 14, 2017.

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  1. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    Okay, before anyone says "search is my friend," I have done a search and found various answers to my question but I wanted to see if any opinions have changed since some of these posts are over 8 years old.

    I am in the process of doing a 30k service on my 99 Modena. The timing belts that are on the car are from 2013 and the last service was then, putting them at 4 years old and being in service approx. the same amount of time.

    The new belts I received are date coded 2015, putting them at two years old prior to being put on. Granted, they have been stored in a climate controlled environment since then, but they are still two years old. It has been said, one of the downfalls of storing a car is the fact that the belts take a set. Is this a factor or is it just an issue when they are under tension? With these being two years old brand new, will I be changing belts again next year or does that clock start once the belts are installed?

    With the Modena having been out of production for 12 years now, new parts are not being produced as most of what is available is NOS parts. The timing belts I have are Ferrari branded Dayco belts. So, is there a benefit to buying "Ferrari" branded belts rather than Dayco which may have a newer production date?

    I have already talked to the supplier and he has assured me that they rotate stock and ship the newest belts out.
     
  2. virendra

    virendra Formula Junior

    Jun 14, 2008
    251
    Hong Kong
    Full Name:
    virendra anand
    Curious. Are you doing a cam belt service yourself or through a garage. I thought there were 2 versions on the 360. Mine is the 2002 model and trying to think if you can do a cam belt service from the rear seat acess panel hidden under the carpet OR does it have to be an engine drop service.

    Asking as mine is overdue.
     
  3. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,741
    The clock starts when the belts are installed in the engine.
     
    TheMayor and I'm 360 Canuck like this.
  4. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 27, 2001
    5,516
    Duluth, MN
    Full Name:
    The Meister
    I'm actually in a very similar boat. I bought two new belts when I bought a mondial a couple years ago and never got to changing them so the belts are new in box but now exactly 2 years old. My belts cost maybe $70 so at this point IMO it's an unnecessary risk to install them and when I actually start the project I'll order up some new ones.
     
    LARRYH likes this.
  5. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    I'm doing it myself. Ferrari wanted 10k, my indi wanted 4k w/annual. Parts cost to date is about 1200 including some additional stuff and tools that are a one time purchase.

    One of the reasons I went with the 360 rather than earlier models or later ones is the fact that if one is proficient, it's a fairly easy car to work on. Unlike the previous models. As far as two versions, there is only the Modena and the Spider but that is it unless you include the Challenge Stradale but I am including that with the Modena for this purpose. All 360's have the access panel behind the seats to allow belt servicing. The spider has a few more complications relating to the convertible mechanism on the early versions but nothing else as far as I know. To my knowledge, there is no reason for a 360 to have the engine pulled unless there was an engine failure.

    Overdue is subjective and a hot topic to say the least. My last belt service (before I owned the car) was in 2013, with the belts dated 2013. I am assuming that the service before that was sometime after 2009, based on the PS belt which is dated 2009. So, it appears my car has been serviced close to what Ferrari recommends on a 3yr/30k interval. Some people go by this, some do not. Up to you to decide when enough is enough. What I can say now is I will be going by the 3 yr cycle given the fact that the distance on the tensioners on my car is about a 1/4" out. While the specifications call for it to be a few mm's, indicating a good deal of belt stretch. This was also validated by the frequency test. The old belts measure out about 140hz while the spec for the new ones is up around 200hz I believe. So, even though the belts look good and they were changed I will be doing at least an inspection every three years.
     
    virendra likes this.
  6. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    So you wouldn't have any issues installing belts that are coded 2015, as long as they were from a reputable source and in a climate controlled environment?
     
  7. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    Yea, and I think that as time goes on, more 360 owners are going to run into this situation as the Ferrari branded Dayco belts are not being produced any longer. I have reached out to Dayco but have not heard back from them yet.
     
  8. The Kook Abides

    The Kook Abides F1 Rookie

    Jan 4, 2011
    3,459
    Has anyone ever tried to break a timing belt?

    **** is very tough kids....
     
  9. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    Dayco responded to my inquiry and according them, their belts have a 7 year shelf life.
     
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  10. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    Not if you use a knife.....a really sharp knife.....and a pair of cutters.....or a grinder......
     
    mike01606 likes this.
  11. The Kook Abides

    The Kook Abides F1 Rookie

    Jan 4, 2011
    3,459
    Yeah... the guy that makes and sells them. LOL.
     
  12. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    Well, since they make them, wouldn't they have a better idea on shelf life than a lay person? If he wanted to sell more of them, I would have thought he would tell me something like they have a best use by date and that is one year past production. If you choose to use these, bad things will happen up to an including Armageddon....
     
  13. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,252
    socal
    Dayco says something like belts OK to use as NOS 8 years after date of manufacture. I read that years ago in their documents.

    I always get young Ferrari branded belts from Ricambi. Quality supplier makes a huge difference.
     
    LARRYH likes this.
  14. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2017
    1,852
    North Wiltshire, UK
    $10k to do a cambelt on a 360? You sure that wasn't for a major, cambelts, brakes, clutch etc, etc, etc??? Over here main dealer price for cambelts only is £585.00, major is £2.5k, and that before you haggle them down a little.
     
  15. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    #15 Ghostdiver, Dec 15, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
    The Ferrari branded belts and all components came from a reputable supplier. Check your PM for specifics.
     
  16. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    Your right, I stand corrected.....it's $14k from my local dealer, and yes it is a 30k service including timing belts but nothing with the clutch as far as I know. Quote from the email...

    "It sounds as though you’re due for the bi-annual service, which includes replacement of all of the fluids and filters. On your car, this is around 2,500.00. The major service which includes the replacement of the timing belts and tensioners, all fluids, filters, etc., is around 14,000.00."
     
  17. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,741
    That is correct, I would have no problem having those belts installed in my car.
     
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  18. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2017
    1,852
    North Wiltshire, UK
    WOW, talk about taking the p***. Not sure how they can justify $14,000.

    Not sure what hourly rate for a main dealer over there is but in the UK, its about £120 plus taxes, so call it £140 for argument sake, and they will discount for older car.

    So fluids/filters and belts, they are advertised over here for £200, a few belts at £50; that's from an independent company so double it for OEM, so say £500 parts, plus tensioner bearings £200 from Hill, plus fluids at max £300. £1000 parts total.

    So that's then leaves enough money for about 90 hours labour, which is 2.5 weeks worth of work. Even if you say that the cam covers come off to check all that etc. and there are £1000 in gaskets etc, you are still talking 2 weeks of labour.

    I don't know, but I'm sure there are a few on this site that do their own maintenance and can comment on how long it takes; but 2 weeks????
     
    virendra likes this.
  19. rugby

    rugby Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2015
    364
    Atlanta
    My local independent would charge around $4K for all that work, parts and labor. His rate is $125/hour.
     
    ATLSIGNGUY likes this.
  20. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 7, 2012
    3,324
    Tallahassee, FL
    I'm interested in hearing more about the specifics/cost of the "etc".
     
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  21. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    I was told by my indi that it would be about 5 hrs to do the belts not including the annual service.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  22. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    That's about what my indi quoted me. $3900 for belts and fluids. Think his rate is about the same as yours.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  23. virendra

    virendra Formula Junior

    Jun 14, 2008
    251
    Hong Kong
    Full Name:
    virendra anand


    14K . Must be joking. They must use gold plated pulleys. I thought Hong Kong was expensive compared to the UK as they local dealers claimed high rentals, staff training costs etc and a basic Cam Belt service here used to be USD 6500. (The aftermarket guys would start with a package deal of 3500 USD but end up giving a list of stuff half way through like the Engine mounts etc etc. Having stripped 2 F360's there are 2 versions of the rear bulkhead on the Modena. One has 2 panels and one has a long big one. Forgotten which was which as one was a 2009 and another was the 2002 version. Another difference was a vent valve in the fuel tank. The later models had an electronic sensor valve on the fuel pump plate on the right side pump whereas the older version had nothing. My Timing belt was done in 2009 and the car has done 2500 kms since then but was mostly kept dry stored. Rather than risk it I am keen to get on with it and do it so v keen to follow your lead. . 5 hrs mentioned somewhere here is very optimistic I guess, but still not bad.
     
  24. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2005
    1,349
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    Well, I guess the saying is true, everything is bigger in Texas...including prices! As far as the two different bulkhead panels, first I have heard of this but I never claimed to know everything. Not sure about the 2009 version though since 360 production ended in 2005. Having worked on everything from 800t cranes to almost every type of auto around, I can say that working on a 360 is one of the easier ones I have undertaken. Five hours of actual working time to change the belts isn't unrealistic to someone who has done it before. Someone undertaking it for the first time, would take a little bit longer but not a significant amount more.
     
  25. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    I agree ---- so long as the belts have been stored adequately (no excessive heat, cold, fumes, sunlight, chemicals, etc.).

    I would look at them as still "new" and perfectly fine to install.
     

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