Removing cam shaft sprockets

Out of the darkness, words of wisdom!

 

If you want to see overthinking, step on over to the cam timing discussion thread.... complete with math.

 

And complete with the experiments that prove a long time myth is wrong

 

I know John is wrong on that one and you took the wrong side. Love you like a brother Dave, but you both are wrong on that one. I am not going to contribute to that thread anymore.

 

YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

 

You are right. You are always right, in theory.
Get off you couch and pull a motor once a while and then find out how right you are
Until then, you credibility is zero.

 

Mitch - I was so sure John was wrong and as we are friends, I was foaming at the mouth to prove him wrong (it's all in good fun for us). The reality is, he is not wrong - he is 100% correct and my experiments proved it. So you can argue his theory is wrong but I proved him right with real life experiments. If you want to tells us we are both wrong, please show us. Just saying so proves nothing.

Love you too, Mitch

EDIT - we might be mixing up 2 different threads - I was responding based on the TDC thread.

 

We are mixing threads. I am referring to the cam timing discussion. As for the TDC thread, I have nothing to contribute. I do it the Ferrari way.

 

Oh, Dave. As for proving John is wrong? No need. He can find that out when he pulls his engine. Until then, I am just going to let him look ignorant with his theory.

 

You might want to review the thread - you may learn something - I sure did and I've learned that the Ferrari method is not all that accurate.

He won't. He's probably one of the smartest guys I know and is very rarly wrong. I also agree with him in that thread. I'll say it again - if we are wrong, tell us (specifically) why.

 

How do you keep the cams from rotating when you are adjusting the cam timing by rotating the cam sprockets? How do you lock the cams down on a Colombo motor with cam chains or gear driven cams?
The only way to do it safely is by using the paper method under a couple of bearing caps on each cam. You don't use a thick piece of paper. I use notepad paper folded in half, which just takes up the oil clearance between the cam and bearing caps in the head. There is no way humanly possible that you could break the bearing caps, even if you used an impact gun on the nuts. The studs would break/strip before the bearing cap broke. I was taught this method by a very respected engine builder, and every Ferrari tech that I know uses the same method.
The result of not locking the cams down is that they can rotate in the head while you are moving the crank, and end up contacting the piston. I am repairing two bent valves in a car right now caused by just such an occurrence.

 

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/142534182/

Brian - adding thin paper to take up the oil gap as you say makes much more sense than a cardboard match book cover which is certainly thicker than the oil film clearance.

 

at it again !!!!

 

Would not use an impact wrench on any reassembly!

 

It was a joke to get my point across. The torque on the 6mm cam bearing cap nuts is only 10nm/7.3ft-lb, so no-one in his right mind would use air tools to install them. If I am in a hurry I will use an air rachet (not impact) to remove them, but usually do this by hand so I can feel how tight the nuts are as they come off.

 

That is why you need patience to work on a Ferrari! Not some donkey brained BUBBA!

 

At 71 all I can say is I've earned my right to sit on the couch. My history with cars and motors is long and my hands bare the scars. I've done it all, from the ground up literally.

My driveway, circa 1963, age 16.

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LOL!

 

I've asked you more than one to show or tell me how pieces of steel and aluminum change dimension over time. Because that is the only way a belt swap could change timing from the last timing to within a fraction of the belt length tolerance. You can not, no one can because once the cams are pinned nothing is the system changes other then the belt, given that the engine remains mechanically sound.

My apologies for contaminating this thread, but I'm not going to sit around and allow someone to besmirch me without rebuttal.

 

As for the Ferrari way, nothing wrong with it other than it is potentially the least accurate way to find TDC. Yes, it's the Ferrari way. The way they teach and the way Ferrari techs will tell you is the only correct way. That is pure Ferrari propaganda like most of the service crap they preach.

My apologies for contaminating this thread, but I'm not going to sit around and allow someone to besmirch me without rebuttal.

 

You dont even need a vice. Rap an old belt around the sproket, hold both long 'ends' tight in your hand and snug against the sproket, and hit the bolt with an impact wrench which does 90% of the work.

Too easy and 'nope' I do not have a 'gorilla grip.'

 

Are you guys removing the cam belts, and then trying to loosen the cam gears?

 

Mike, I have Dave's cam lock tool and I look forward to using it on my 355 shortly. Unfortunately I'm certain these will not work on the QV/328. Besides the difference in the cam center to center distance, on each bank of the QV/328 one of the cam pulleys has an outer fence that prevents engagement of the tool with the teeth of the sprocket.

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