How do the judges react to USA bumpers being collapsed . Do they care?
if you just drilled a hole in the bumper cylinder, I would think you could just pull it back out for the show. If you bought the alternative bumper braces - well...
I was told offhand (at a social gathering) by an FCA 308 judge that it was a 1 point deduction. It's a fairly easy modification to reverse, but replacing the back bumper spacers would require you to remove the muffler cowling and remove the bumper before the spacers could be replaced. I guess the front bumper could just be pulled back out if the shocks were drilled and not pinned. It seems like that would make them too free to slide back out on their own though.
My 78 USA car did not have the spacers behind the rear bumper The spacer gap was taken up by a mod addition to the bumper. Now permanent and not removable . So the fix entailed collapsing the shocks . Too much hassle to reverse for a show. I would rather not show and have a better looking car. I will drink champagne and watch everyone else sweat!!
Collapsed bumper shocks would absolutely be a 1 point deduction. Try showing your car riding low on 4 empty shock absorbers; same thing. Of course no one would ever know if you pulled an empty set of bumper shocks back out to the stock position so that would be your only reasonable option to avoid having the points deducted. Outside of showing the USA bumpers in the correct position any deviation from that will cost you points and rightly so as the car is being represented as modified.
judges are there to make sure your car is uglier... be thankful you dont have an early usa spec 74-75 308 gt4 ! https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/new-308gt4-owner-saying-hello.560338/
My understanding is that if you want to be judged there's nothing you can do in regards to modifications. So technically if you were to drill the shocks then pull them back out you are "cheating" because your shocks have holes drilled in them and are non-functional as designed. So if judging is a competition does winning mean so much to you that you are willing to defraud the judges and your fellow competitors? I don't mean to be hardcore, I'm not really into this sort of thing so I may not really understand what people are looking for or expecting by having their car judged. But I would think that if it is indeed a competition then everyone should follow the same rules.
Judges where? Every organization has its own rules and standards. Even different regions of the FCA often have significant misunderstandings of the IAC/PFA judging that is used at FCA Annual meets and Cavallino and so vary from it to various degrees. In short they are supposed to care. Originality is supposed to be the primary item of interest and there is nothing original about pushed in bumpers.
Many cars, including show winners at Pebble Beach are not truly stock in every way. Many things are done to improve reliability and driveability. It is considered acceptable if it is not able to be seen. Many old Maserati motors as an example had built up connecting rods to keep them light. They destroyed many engines. Since at least the 70's those have been getting replaced by Carillos to keep from destroying the remaining engine blocks.
My experience with concourse events is that it's who you know, more than a perfect car. If they know you or your car, it's given an unfair advantage. I know, because I've been the recipient of "positive" prejudice. Not fair, just the way it is. The cars at these shows are "NOT" judged on a level playing field.
P.S. These judges come off as experts. In reality, they can only rely on their own experience, right or wrong. One show I went to, the judge noted that my steering wheel was not original...he was wrong. He said my wheel should be silver. I told him that most '80's had black, but there was no convincing him. So, his ignorance cost me in this case.
Holy smokes...US bumpers are ugly as sin even pushed in...take the point hit in favor of a pretty car!
I would love to go there. I have been involved with Ferrari since 1969. We would need a new thread to talk about this problem . I think heads would explode if some of the “know it all “ judges where dressed down. That would be fun. But not hear.
Agreed. The regional FCA concours events are not judged to the standard of the National Meet, Cavallino, or Concorso. At those events the judges are pretty darn knowledgeable and are generally open to have vehicle peculiarities shown to them (with the correct proving documentation of course). Regional events are generally more show and shines with some amateur judging thrown in. Often times even judging is by 'peoples choice' eliminating any real science to the process. For this reason the only really recognized prizes are those handed out at the bigger meets.
Once again Rifle chimes in when he doesn't even know which events we're referring to. Until you know which ones we're involved in, you're just trying to stir the pot... as usual! So, maybe you should refrain from commenting unless you know the details. A typical troll
In 2001 at the FCA Nationals in Dallas, I had to explain to a judge what the plug for the trouble light was for - AND that there was supposed to be one in the tool kit.
Last year in Daytona I argued with a "higher level" judge that an 84 QV odometer has 6 numbers instead of 5. I only "won" the discussion because I happened to have a picture of mine.
Keep a copy of the first test R&T did with the new GTSi in your trunk. The test car was an 80 model with a silver spoked Nardi. (It had boxer trim too) I don't recall the issue at the moment but the subtitle was "the i means injected - and improved"
