Need help. Can’t open the oil cap on my California. | FerrariChat

Need help. Can’t open the oil cap on my California.

Discussion in 'California/Portofino/Roma' started by JimmyChooToo, Feb 16, 2018.

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  1. JimmyChooToo

    JimmyChooToo Karting

    Aug 7, 2017
    51
    I purchased the Ferrari titanium oil cap, but my existing plastic oil cap won’t budge. Any tips to get the cap off besides going to the dealer for something so trivial. Thank you!!
     
  2. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
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    Michael
    #2 4th_gear, Feb 16, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
    You might try to warm up the plastic cap with a hair dryer. Try to apply more of the heat to the engine block rather than the cap as that may have the added effect of expanding the female threads on the engine block, further loosening the mating with the cap. Clean the threads with varsol and alcohol after you get the cap off.

    I don't know why your cap doesn't budge, but if some oil had gotten on the threads/seal, dried up from engine compartment heat/air and then seized you might be able to soften the dried oil with moderate heat. I wouldn't go crazy with heat though. If this doesn't work call your dealer's service department. They'll know what to do.

    Actually, come to think of it, if you don't have true winter conditions where you are, you might just take the car for a decent drive, get the engine block warmed up and then try budging the plastic cap. I was thinking more along my situation, with my car in storage for another 2 months!

    Your cap is stuck because of a mechanical constriction, either because the threads got glued together or because of crossed threads. The latter possibility is highly remote so it's just the first scenario you have to work on. The only glue I can think of is dried oil. Hope this helps.
     
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  3. JimmyChooToo

    JimmyChooToo Karting

    Aug 7, 2017
    51
    Thank you!! I will give the hair dryer trick a try. My buddy (who’s stronger) came over and had no luck either. I will say this, that Ferrari engine compartment is one precision piece of equipment. Nothing in the engine bay flexes at all, no matter how much pressure you put on that oil cap.
     
  4. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
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    Michael
    Too bad the weather here is so miserable at the moment. I keep my garage just a few degrees above freezing and I don't really feel like prancing around in there at the moment.

    I do recall the oil cap is not that big so it may be awkward to grasp it tightly. If that's the case I suggest getting a cotton rag, damp it with hot water and wrap that around the cap before grasping it tightly to try and turn it. You can also wear a glove because it will provide better grip. Leather gloves work best.

    The other thing you can try is to tighten an adjustable wrench around the damp cotton rag over the ridge on the cap (be sure to wrap the rag securely around the cap). Then place your gloved weaker hand over the wrench to keep it in place as you try to turn the wrench with your stronger hand... very carefully. Use only a short wrench and only apply a very slow moderate force, in case the wrench slips. You don't want the wrench slipping and slamming into "something expensive". You only need to move the thread on the cap 1 or 2 mm to release it. It's just a tiny turn of the wrench. After that, it will be free and you won't need to exert force to remove it.

     
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  5. SVCalifornia

    SVCalifornia Formula 3
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    Mar 28, 2011
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    Not one of those that is “press down to release” is it??

    SV
     
  6. JimmyChooToo

    JimmyChooToo Karting

    Aug 7, 2017
    51
    I don’t think so based solely on the factory titanium one I have. Stupid question before I try. Counter-clockwise to open right (it’s hard to tell with the titanium one)??

    Thanks everybody!!
     
  7. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
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    No. It's fully threaded, turn anti-clockwise to remove.

    The F136 engine is, apart from record-setting performance, a true work of art, one of the last examples of old-world finest quality workmanship and respect for engineering aesthetics.

    The weather's cleared up today... an almost balmy 1°C :D so I ventured into my garage and took some photos for you. Here's what the cap on my Cali30 engine (F136 IH) looks like. IMO, this is the most beautiful contemporary Ferrari engine of classic design. I have yet to see other carmakers come close. It's a real bonus to the ownership of this truly wonderful car.

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  8. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Veteran

    Sep 18, 2007
    5,280
    I recall having encountered the same issue with my old Cali too. It’s due to the cheap plastic cap sticking to the metal.
    Nice that you can upgrade to a metal cap.
    (In the mid rear engine cars, the oil cap is a metal cap with an integrated dip stick. High quality.)

    FWIW You can either use a wrench or else tap on the handle with a plastic hammer on the side of the handle in the counter clockwise direction and it will loosen.
     
  9. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
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    #9 4th_gear, Feb 19, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
    Thanks for your opinion MalibuGuy, ;).

    I don't think metal caps would stick any less than plastic ones but the Cali's cap is essentially a generic one and the 458's cap is a more expensive one with a Ferrari logo (probably not titanium though). However, the Cali engine has 2 oil caps so overall cost saving was likely not why Ferrari went with 2 caps.

    The Cali uses a separate diptick for checking oil levels so the oil filler is only used to fill oil, which is handy, as you can pull the dipstick any time to check the oil level from a separate location in the pan while you are adding the oil at the same time. With the 458's dipstick, you would have to remove the dipstick, add oil and put it back and pull it back out before you can check the oil level.

    If you examine the photos below, it also looks to me Ferrari had to move the 458's oil filler cap to a centre position because of the narrower compartment dictated by the mid-engine layout. The separate filler and dipstick located on either sides of the Cali's engine cannot be accommodated due to the narrower space of the 458 engine compartment.


    I aso feel that while the 458 is a wonderful car and sports the quintessential version of the F136 engine... IMO, the F136 in the Cali does look better, because it is a less fussy cleaner 1-piece design which simply emphasizes the visual "heft" of the engine. Of course, it's just my opinion. I'm no automotive authority and beauty is after all, in the eye of the beholder. ;)

     
  10. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Veteran

    Sep 18, 2007
    5,280
    #10 MalibuGuy, Feb 19, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
    The front engine V12s don’t use platic oils caps either.
    And no the metal caps don’t stick.
     
  11. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Veteran

    Sep 18, 2007
    5,280
    Other areas where Ferrari cut costs was the decision to go with a wet sump and not a dry sump. The Cali is the only model in the range which used a wet sump.

    The factory probably decided this was a good fit with the Calis mission statement. Teams were not going to ever race them in competition such as IMSA or Le Mans.
     
  12. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

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    A couple of points.

    You can claim that metal caps don't stick but it's just hearsay, unless you provide proof. Baseless hearsay tends to lessen one's credibility.

    Do you really believe Ferrari would save a couple of dollars and allow oil caps to stick simply because it's a plastic cap? Really? I would find that incredible... in fact, not credible at all. IMO, I think Ferrari did not see the need to use a more expensive custom oil cap but also did not believe the plastic cap as being more liable to stick than a metal one.

    Ferrari would not knowingly handicap the maintenance of its own cars.​

    As for the wet sump in the Cali. I think you are both right and wrong.

    I think the wet sump is used in the Cali because design-wise, it was less expensive and it was also more suitable for the Cali as you say "...this was a good fit with the Calis mission statement...". Dry sumps involve a) more complicated design, b) operational considerations and c) more costly maintenance.​

    Design-wise, the original Cali was definitely not designed to track, much less to race (although later Cali30 HS and CaliT models, do a few laps just fine on even a tight track). :D The original Cali was designed to let new Ferrari owners and current Ferrari owners experience Formula 1 style, supercar performance under road-legal conditions while providing an easy-to-drive relatively comfortable environment. Dry sumps allows a lower CoG and more resistance to oil starvation under long stints of sustained very high G cornering, neither of which is in keeping with the Cali's mission. Ferrari wanted to keep the vehicle height not too low, to allow better ingress/egress. Dry sumps also involve more parts and increases production costs. So wet sump is more suitable for the Cali.

    Operational considerations, dry sumps like the 458 require a bit of time after engine start for the oil to warm up and circulate from the external oil sump. You can cause unnecessary wear to your 458 engine if you drive off and rev the engine before the oil gets to lubricate and protect the running surfaces in the engine. The Cali catered to a very broad range of owners, from people who already owned other Ferraris to people who never owned a fast car before, much less a dry sump Ferrari. You can safely drive off in the Cali before you can do the same in the 458, under similar conditions. The Cali was also designed to accommodate Winter driving as many owners only own one practical car, the Cali. Concerns about dry sumps not being able to lubricate the engine quickly enough would also increase exponentially under Winter conditions. Ferrari does not want to invite complaints about engine wear and loss of performance.

    (More) costly maintenance, dry sump engines use much more oil and is also more complicated to maintain because it involves more parts and as I mentioned, if you have inexperienced drivers, revving their engines in Winter before the oil actually reaches the running parts, you can leave yourself open to very costly premature engine wear... during the warranty period.​

    I'm not sure what all this has to do with the Cali having 2 oil caps vs the single cap in the 458, but there you have it, my perspective on the pros and cons to why the Cali has a wet sump.
     
  13. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Veteran

    Sep 18, 2007
    5,280
    Perhaps we should call this 4th Gear Chat.

    I had the same issue with my Cali as the person in this post. I was disappointed in seeing a rather unattractive and cheap looking cap. If it were designed better, perhaps it wouldn’t stick!

    I don’t need to justify or prove anything to you. you are not my authority.

    In fact I see very little insight in most of your posts.
     
  14. Streetsurfer

    Streetsurfer Formula Junior

    Dec 16, 2015
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    near Chicago
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    Ron
    All it needs is a little lube on the o-ring.
     
  15. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

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    #15 4th_gear, Feb 19, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
    I find the cap somewhat generic and bland but not unattractive. If you look at the photo of the Cali engine I posted, you might also notice the cap just simply blends into the background, with the other black plastic bits. I don't agree the plastic construction of the cap makes it more prone to stick. What may be more of an issue is the use of multi-threaded fastening. If you look at the photo I posted you will see the Cali cap needs about 4 full rotations to fasten securely while I believe the 458 cap doesn't require nearly this many turns. The extra threads in the Cali's oil filler hole may make it more likely to get "sticky" if the cap is not wiped clean every so often or if the person filling the oil gets a bit clumsy and spills oil all over the threads and don't clean up properly.

    I'm sorry you are uncomfortable with having to debate all the points we try to put forth, but it is a fair expectation on public forums. We should be more comfortable sharing ideas and information.
     
  16. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

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    Thanks. I'll have a closer look next time I take out the cap. ;)
     
  17. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Veteran

    Sep 18, 2007
    5,280
    #17 MalibuGuy, Feb 19, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
    In terms of the superiority of Dry sump in terms of endurance and racing, both the 458 and 488 won in their class at LE Mans 24 hour and the IMSA series the past two seasons.

    So we don’t know the basic s for saying that a wet sump California engine is more durable or superior in any aspect to a dry sump 458 or 488?

    Do you have 70,000 miles on your Cali?

    I had over that amount on all my Fcars

    My 458 has close to 90K. That engine is fantastic. It is a superior engine to my old Cali which needed variators and other engine work at 45K that engine didn’t rev as high nor produce as much Hp or torque.

    The the TDF and LaFerrari still use the dry sump inspite of your arguments in favor of a Cali style wet sump.

    Perhaps they should pay more attention to FChat.
     
  18. good2go

    good2go Formula Junior

    Feb 9, 2016
    939
    Fact check...

    4th Gear gets 3.3% likes on his posts.

    MaibuGuy gets 5.3% likes on his posts.

    Just the facts please. It’s simple math.
     
  19. azlin75

    azlin75 Formula Junior

    Jul 16, 2017
    785
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    Shawn Hicks
    While not a Ferrari I had an interesting Issue similar to this on my wifes Chrysler Mini van this last summer. Both the oil cap and dipstick handle stuck in the engine. I used a wrench to break the oil filler cap free similar to others have mentioned and when trying to remove the dipstick from the dipstick tube the darn thing broke off. Luckily the design of the dipstick didnt let it fall on into the engine and i was eventually able to get it out. I replaced both with new factory parts and asked a mechanic friend of mine about the sticking. He said that while he doesn't know for sure that a combination of the plastic breaking down, the oil on the threads gumming up and lack of oil on the o-rings on both the dipstick and cap cause the plastic stuff to stick. Now when i check the oil I make sure to dab a bit of the oil from the dip stick onto the 2 o-rings on the dipstick just below the handle. I figure i have a while before i have a problem but i figure it cant hurt to get into the habit.
     
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  20. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

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    MalibuGuy, it's no secret that I can only drive my Cal30 six months out of 12, because I don't live in LA under California climate like you do. I have also advocated against using these cars as daily drivers because at least for myself, because I feel it associates the drudgeries of commuter traffic, public parking with a car that I would rather drive on open country roads and the odd visit to the track (we only have one within distance of a day's trip). I bought my car to deliver a sense of occasion every time I take her out so I try not to test the limits of that possibility every day.

    I am also retired so don't need to daily commute or even go out if I don't feel like it. Therefore given my situation, I would only average 6,000 km per year if I could drive her 12 months out of the year as a retiree. That isn't bad at all when I also own a truck that I love to drive, 10,000 km a year, without once going to work. A person can only have so many daylight hours and decent weather for driving. I also have responsibilities and hobbies that don't involve driving.

    I'm also baffled as to why you seem to think I don't like dry sump engines. Just where did you get that impression? I had essentially agreed with you, that dry sump engines are much better suited for lower CoG designs, fast driving on a track, something that the original Cali just wasn't designed for. So why would you construe that as a put down on Ferraris that have dry sump engines? You know, I get the sense we may simply have vastly different mindsets and approach discussions from vastly different directions, so much so that it is difficult to come together on common ground as our discussions progress.

    Finally, please keep in mind this thread is about helping a Cali30 owner remove his oil cap, and not about comparing personal stats or criticizing car designs. Let's try to keep it under control and stay on topic.
     
  21. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

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    I don't think your post is helpful or a compliment to your sense of judgment. Life is neither a zero-sum game... nor a popularity contest.
     
  22. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

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    Well, it's interesting that you mention your positive (and negative) experiences with seized oil caps but while it may eventually get expensive to maintain the Cali at a dealer they would also not allow the car or its parts to degrade while it's under their care. My dealer's service garage has certainly delivered the best dealer experiences for me and I had previously serviced my BMWs at dealers for over 30 years.

    It's good to know you got your cap to budge with a wrench. As for for the dipstick, it is a smaller and much more fragile item and you were indeed lucky the loose stick didn't require a "fishing expedition" to remove. :D I suspect we've all had similar close calls with "death". What mileage did the Minivan have on it at the time? If plastic degradation is a factor, mileage would certainly do a job on the dipstick and the oil filler cap.

    As for why the OP's cap seized, I guess we can only find out for sure after he removes the cap.
     
  23. azlin75

    azlin75 Formula Junior

    Jul 16, 2017
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    The van only has like 130k miles on it now so it was a little less then that then. Generally I take the van in and have the services all done on it but I check the oil, power steering fluid, brake fluid and tires weekly on the van (don't check transmission because it's sealed). So it suprised me when the dip stick wouldnt come out, and really suprised me when the cap was stuck.

    Never encountered this before last summer on any of the vehicles we own or any of the equipment we own and maintain some of which have the oil checked daily. But I take note now if anything has a rubber o-ring and it does I make sure to coat the o-ring with a bit of the oil.

    In the OP's case I certainly would at least try a wrench and maybe a "cheater" bar and gently try to open the oil cap especially since he intends to change it to a metal cap. As to the reason they stick who really knows but I suspect it's a combination of factors. The number and size of the threads as well as being dry sure make a lot of sense though.
     
  24. JimmyChooToo

    JimmyChooToo Karting

    Aug 7, 2017
    51
    Thanks everyone for all the helpful replies!! A Quick update. It’s still stuck. I bought this wrench on eBay for $11 free shipping. It should hopefully work. If it doesn’t, looks like an extra trip to dealer for an early oil change (can’t hurt).

    As an aside, the Cali oil cap may be plastic, but it is very high quality plastic and doesn’t look bad. I don’t think Ferrari was trying to save money. They could have easily charged for it and added a metal oil cap to the option list and people would have paid. This is a company that charges $1,000+ for cruise control. And something like $3,000+ for a $9 backup camera.
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  25. vjd3

    vjd3 F1 Rookie
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    I would've run it over to the dealer, told the service advisor the sumbitch was stuck, and have him get a mechanic to pull it off there ... after all, it must have been the shop gorilla who tightened it after the last change. Plus you could've been entertained watching them try to muscle it off. Barring that, a strap wrench might have done the trick for you.
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