mid engine corvette qtr panels leaked photo

This tells me exactly NOTHING

How can something be "evolutionary" and "revolutionary" at the same time. These are exact opposites. I question if this guy actually saw it and is just trying to get attention.

 

He did give some details but of course it's meaningless until it's real.

 

Honestly, I bet 1/2 of every bit of "first hand information" or "rumors" on social media are total BS.

 

This alleged underbody / frame CAD drawing of the C8 reveals a lot about the shape of the car - you can clearly see how the midsection pinches in. The back half of the car is really wide, and you can see the shape of the intake scoop. Seems to fit the description as stated by the person that claimed to see the car. Seems similar to the Ford GT - maybe not those "open" tunnels with the outer buttresses, but it almost looks like a completely different car from different angles.

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This supply of pictures is the gift that keeps on giving! Thanks

 

If so you can by 10 impalas for the price of one Ferrari GTC or FF

 

So apparently the guy that "saw" the car says this render is very close. I suspect the lines flowing to the fender scoop are more pronounced as mentioned above, but he says this is really close. There is the same "open" hood like a GT40 or 458 Speciale, which I love:

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Disappointed.

 

I like it. No doubt it's a vette and now is mid engined. Nothing radical here but that fine.

I am more co evened about bulk, all the pics so far the rear looks yuge. Then there's weight.

Mcmearen and ferrari are getting well below 3k lbs with 700 hp. I do t doubt that some version of the vette will have even more power, but this may be a biggish 3609lbs car. Not about to scare the others then.

 

I believe the weight number for the basic non turbo ME model with DCT will be 3260 pounds.

 

The 488 weighs 3400 lbs and change, and obviously costs significantly more. The 720S is lighter at around 3100 lbs, but again, it costs a hell of a lot more than what the Corvette is likely going to cost.

 

Are we comparing wet or dry weights? The new ferrai 488 GTo variant is a little over 2800lbs dry, i belive the 720 is below 300lbs dry, and we have yet to see the LT version..

The benchmark for corvette is the c6 z05 which was 3150, so what are we sayign the new one is heavier? I belive the C5 weighted less than even that.
If the lightest of the new vettes with pushrod V8 is going to be 3260lbs then you know the powerful versions are 200lbs more and Im being generous maybe 3-400lvs more.

Anyone can make a lardy car with lots of Hp, juts look at the Bugatti veyron, but thats not serious other than for posing.
The future of performance lays in loosing weight, not adding ever more irrelevant hp which is then dialed back by the nannies.

To really take the vette seriously it needs to be able to do well in trackday enviroment, because thats where a lot of people who drive their cars fast these days go, and thats where "performance" is truly judged. Yes the current z06 can knock off some exceptional "lightening" laps, just before fading, but thats irrelevant to sustained laptimes for a day.

Witness the performance of the current z06 vs the grand sport, because for a day out on track the grandsrt is faster by far, its tires last longer as do brake pads etc.

Yes I know the z06 has a limp mode issue, but beyond that its simply too heavy, and melts too fast.
Building car that can knock off 3 fast laps before fading out is a con. What seperates a 488, Gt3, Gt4 Lotus etc from the pretenders is they can consistently run all day 9/10ths out the box. This vette is going to be no cheaper than cayman Gt4. I would add the grandsport to the out the box list but I hear they still need brakeline upgrades which means Gm has yet to get fully serious and is still counting beans in the wrong places.

I hope they make a lightweight properly sorted serious trackable version, because what they served up with the current z06 is a cynical excercise in buyer stupidity. Ie the bragging rights vette. I doubt the new one will overheat and go into limp mode, but if its still too heavy same difference.

Whats needed is a version 3000lbs or less, a car with allt he cooling oiling and baking pieces to last a summer on track without needing more than fluids pads etc. A car light enough to have tires that last. You know what at 2800-3000lbs 500hp is more than enough and 650 will do just fine. That to me is a serious car, a 3600lbs lardy machine with 750hp, I would say why even bother go mid engine other than as a sales gimick.

But yeah I ma sure it will show great accleration and skidpad metric for those to whom that is all important.

Just seems like opportunity missed here.

 

Looks like an American 488. I noticed the latest 488 has a few Ford GT styling cues up front now. Everybody copies everybody else. Someone should take a picture of the new 488 with a FORD logo on it, pay back for the 1966 photo


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Given GMs tendency to...umm..."pay homage" to Ferrari styling, I think you are right. It will be Ferrari-like. In fact, I tend to believe it will be a derivative design rather than revolutionary. It's hard these days to come up with something truly different, but I do appreciate some of the McLaren styling and the Ford GT (in particular, the back half of the car).

Not a bad thing at all, especially since I believe it will be a high volume car.

 

True but that has everything to do with the internet and less to do with design philosophy and government regulations. They should have introvert car designers locked up in a room with no internet access in the advanced car design concept department Ofcourse they could not be millennials as they would die without their phones

 

A good idea is still a good idea regardless of who comes up with it first.

 

I'm comparing curb weight because we can't drive cars without fluids (at least not for long...). While I agree with you that lighter is better, there's only two ways to make a car lighter, and both have significant drawbacks. You can cut out equipment and features, but then you can only ditch so much before you alienate most of the market. Look at sales of the Elise/Exige (when it was still around) and the 4C for an example. Granted, those two cars took this philosophy to the extreme, but most people spending this kind of money on a car want features and creature comforts (take a look at the NEW 2016 4Cs that are still sitting unsold on dealer lots two years later). The only other alternative is to use lightweight materials like carbon fiber, but that drives the cost up. There are really precious few new sports cars that are under 3000 lbs--especially in the Corvette's price range.

I agree with you that the NA C6 Z06 is a better configuration for track days than the blown C7 Z06, but we have to remember that the C6 Z06 came out in 2006. Times and regulations have changed. I'm not saying they can't make a mid-engine Corvette come in around 3100 lbs, I'm just saying that if they do, expect it to be fairly expensive. I think 3200-3400 lbs is more realistic, and appropriate for the target market.

 

I'm going to take the Pista's "dry" weight of 2,822 pounds with a LARGE grain of salt. It's not like the Italians aren't known for playing fast and loose with "dry" weights. Remember the early Alfa 4C published "dry" weights.....

 

3200-3400lbs is appropriate for the market of astreet car. Higher power versions will end up weiughting more. Whereas at proche as power goes up on the 991we see a split with the turbo weighing more and the Gt3 weighing less. Plus if porche can make a Gt4 for under 100k and under 3000lbs Gm can do the same with the vette. Hope we see a version like this and its not like the c7 where the standard car is the lightest and they get more lardy from there. Also the new vetets have plenty of CF in them, and I'll bet the good versions of the me car wille asily crest 100k if not 150.

You know why porche makes the 991, because its cred sells suvs, and the make the Gt3 because its cred sells 991's.

In any event imo for the vette to be taken seriously, they need a serious version, the closest we saw on the c7 was the grandsport, the ZR1 is just a gmick, yes its a really really cool car but no more serious or relevant tan an aventador or veryron, Now maybe the vette does not want to be taken seriously, but then why go mid engined.

 

Yeah what does a 4c actualy weight? I read dry for USA thats 2500lbs. That weight puts a lie to the theory that a CF tub saves weight, same can be said for the Mclaren. For comparison my elise with fluids and 2/3 tank came in at 1975 and the exige V6 with fluids fuel roll cage fire system etc came in at a little over 2400lbs.

Still the "fast track" evtte shoudl be able to weigh in around 3000lbs, just think how much all those electric seats sound deadening and a whole host of other crap weighs. When GM was serious the Camaro Z28 managed to shed what 250lbs from a regular SS, yes it was still heavy but point was they were serious about the diet. Now we have the Zl1 camaro which weights more than the SS.

To me its like Gm wants the sportscar buisness, they advertise these cars on track and trackable, but the newer crop are meerly cynical excersises, where "performance" is acheived by ading the easy thing of cheap supercharged Hp and its attendant weight all of which works for 3 laps.

I hope they are more serious this time around with one version.

 

4c weighs about 2500 lbs in US trim. I'm guessing without fuel but with fluids.

The USA ads about 300 lbs from the Euro version from additional CF for crash standards, side airbags, and stronger front and rear bumpers. Oh, and in Europe you can order it with no radio or AC.

 

That's a pretty car.

Cutting the hood like that removes all the storage area for better aero. I seriously doubt the corvette would not have adequate storage.

 

It was inexcusable that the C7 Z06 could not do a 20 minute session without overheating.
That said, the C6 Z06, with the benefit of revisionist history, is now lauded for it's light weight. BUT....when the car was on the market, it was dinged incessantly for it's cheap (but light) seats and interior. The market (that's us) demands multiple layers of gadgets and creature comforts, even in our sports cars. There's a reason there hasn't been a 3 pedal Ferrari in 7 years...because WE didn't buy them.

 

I think we see history differently. Every C6 vette had a crap rent a car interior, not just the z06. Nothing to do with saving weight, it was just what Gm did to save $500 per car, even though a honda had a better interior. The C6 seats were also crap in terms of side bolsters to hold you in. The flaws of the C6 were flaws of execution. The vetet team got away with the good parts they could and had to succumb to the beancounetrs elsewhere, this is just Gm beign Gm. For $1000 more they could have built a way beter car all around.

The c6 zo6 weight was saved by using a magnesium frame, balsa floors and eliminating some crap, cf hood, while also doing the hard work of offering a powerful high reving light NA motor.

The regular C7 used the magnesium frame from the beginning to try limit weight bloat it gave no weigh savings over what came before. I believe the c7 z06 has lots of Cf etc. It weights a lot because C7s are heavier than C6s, and then a supercharged motor weights 200lbs more before you start on all those coolers to keep it running, a non virtuous circle.

To give an idea of what could be with a c7, a grandsport which weights more than a C6 z06 and has 45 less hp runs faster laptimes than the prior z06, so imagine what would have happened if we had a NA 550hp 3100lbs c7. The only reason it didnt happen is because Gm scotched the NA motor and figured more Hp would sell the cars anyway and damm the weight. In one sense they were right, development costs were slight given the supercharged motor is shared with a caddy and camaro and easier cheaper to build than a "less powerful" NA hi po motor, sticky bigger tires masks the bulk for 3 laps till they melt.

Point is either you make a car thats a marketing special and shows great paper numbers for a lap, or you do the real thing. On paper a 991 turbo smokes a Gt3, but porche builds the Gt3 for a reason.

So I guess the question is will or can chevy build a Gt3 equivalent me vette or is it already too heavy and the me part just sales gmick.
BMW fell into the same trap of weight and hp thinking no one would notice, with the M4, a car universaly panned because it was too heavy and incapable and they then scrambled to make "improved" versions and a M2 which is taken seriously.

As to the whole stick thing. The "fact" that no one bought a stick ferrari. Lets look at facts. Ferrari in the end only offered the stick in the chick cali. Its well documented that those who wanted their 430 in stick were discouraged/prevented from ordering one. Ferrari due to hubris and lazyness does not want to offer a stick.
Meanwhile over at porche their proper sportscar namely the Gt3 is now avialable in stick again and the stick takeup rate in the USA is 50%. Cayman Gt4 which was once again a purist car was stick only, that one model doubled cayman sales.

Stick sell when coupled with the right car engine combo. But that is a whole other debate. I have no issue if vette makes a Me car weigthing 3000lbs with 650 hp and paddles, as long as its track suitable, that means everythign from coolers to brake lines, steering etc, because yes on track paddles really are quicker/easier. On street for me a stick is simply way more engaging and fun, and sprotscars are in theory bought for an engaging fun drive..

What I am sayign is, yes 80% or 90% of vettes will be some type of old duffer or gold chain/lawyer/doctor commuter cruiser, its the same at 991 land. But the cred, the halo comes from offering and makign some "real" versions that can really run on track all day all weekend. This does not mean race cars, which are too far removed from an real product, but the vette equivalet of a Gt3, which is what the z06 used to be.

Today tracks are being built all over and are full, not with racers but with people enjoying their cars at De events. Its no longer win on sunday sell on monday. Its run fast all weekend, while being on par or better than your peers(porche, ferrari, lotus etc) and drive home. That then is the halo car upon which you are taken seriously and the other 80% are sold. BTW the truly track cabable car market looks to be something like 10-20K units anualy.

 

Agreed the pista is way more beutiful than the 488 which was lackign compared to the 458. I really like the way they have gotten rid of the slats on the intakes. The open front end is for function in the way it directs air and reduces front end lift. the MK2 Gt40 did that in the 60s. Whats old is new again. Its also doable on specialised car where storing golf cubs is not a consideration.

While not part of this thread, for my money I would take a pista over a 720 any day. One is beautiful, undoubtably sounds great the other may be a little faster but is fugly and sounds like a blare.