Negotiating thoughts?

My two cents is to come up with your budget and then understand the depreciation curve. Those F458s you are looking at? In a few years, they will be $150k cars. If you are okay with that, then decide how much you're willing to spend and be patient.

 

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, it depends upon where the asking price is at in relation to "market". Obviously if its priced aggressively or near market, there is likely little room. If the car is consigned often makes a difference in the ability of the dealer to drop price. And - in general - the Ferrar's dealers don't discount like some other brands in my experience. Figuring out the "market" price is hard of course with these relatively low volume cars.

Final thought - these cars are expensive and getting "what you want" and the "condition you want" is not easy and to finding more than 1 or 2 cars that fit is not a given, so comparing is often not easy either. All of which adds up to say "when you find the right car with the right options and the right condition", paying a few percentage points too much is usually a worthy trade-off for getting the right expensive toy. The percentage points are $2k each on a $200k car of course, but still, its just a few points. And the depreciation or something breaking will make that look like peanuts in the end.

 

If you are buying a car that you ordered and waited--you pay MSRP.
If you are buying a used car on consignment--you will pay what the owner wants.

 

I wandered this myself and have since been really trying to pay attention to sale price vs list price, and in some cases learning or figuring out how much the dealer bought the car for.

It appears that most of the time dealers other then Ferrari generally mark up a vehicle 20-25%. If the will deal or not is a completely different story, as I know several dealers have a policy of no haggle, yet will reduce the price to a preset price in increments until they send the car to auction. My local Porsche dealer is one of these dealers. There is an F430 at a dealer that I know for a fact is marked up exactly 20% from what they paid for it so it seems the 20-25% theory is true at least to start. If you are searching online and the state allows them to disclose price changes you can do the math to see how much "might" be left for negotiations given the cost of the vehicle and current "Market" values. Another thing to take into account is what ever a PPI shows, and I personally would pass on any car a dealer won't allow a PPI on.

A lot of folks tell me they automatically offer 20k under ask and hope to get the car between 10 to 15k off the ask. If the dealer won't deal they move on. I've seen dealers that won't deal with cars on the lot for almost 2 years before they wholesale the car to another dealer. Actually looked at some over the summer that fell into that category. Most of these dealers are hoping you just pay what they are asking which is the preferred sale.

 

I bought a used 458 from a Ferrari dealer a year ago and ended up closing the deal at about 12% below original asking price. Hope it helps.

 

Don't totally lowball the dealer, but when you are really ready to buy -- as in, on the spot -- make a reasonable offer, for an asking of $225k, offer $210k today. Negotiate from there, they can only say "no." It's almost always a good idea to do this a day or two before the end of the month, because they might want to make their sales target. But there is nothing rational or automatic about buying a Ferrari, they know this, too, some dealers will just stick to their price, others will move if they know you are serious, or you can also ask for a 1-year warranty, etc.

I got lucky buying my first F430, an out-of-state buyer had been on the phone with the sales manager for two days, back and forth, trying to get every last dime out of him, they finally agreed to a price and then at the last second the guy insisted that they ship it cross country for free. The sales manager threw up his hands, and said, the hell with this guy! That's exactly when I happened to walk in ... they said, that sales manager's aggravated, offer what the other guy was going to pay, just take it today, it will probably be yours. So I did. $13,500 off asking, if I remember correctly. And that was for a 6-speed F430 right before the prices went through the roof. Good timing.

 

Like Arizona said, depends on how the seller has priced it, at market and holding, over and will come down, etc.
Too many variables here...what options are on car ? That are must have for you ? Spend time researching what you want in the car, make sure you know all options available so you do not buy wrong.
Good luck and enjoy, would love to be shopping for one with driving weather around the corner !

 

I always find it interesting that many dealers have a certain bottom line that they will sell a car for and will not go below. I have had this happen a number of times where we get to a point where we are close, but I felt the dealer was just a bit to high and would not budge. I have found that although they will not budge on the price, one can negotiate in and extended warranty, clear bra, transport, fresh service, tires, etc...

However, sometimes a dealer will take a low offer. I bought a McLaren 12C from a Porsche dealer a couple of years ago. Dealer had the car for a couple months. I offered a pretty low number figuring they would never accept the offer, but was a start. Hardly had spoken the number when the sales associate accepted the offer.

To the OP, always be willing to walk if a deal is not to your liking. As others have said, decide ahead of time how much you are willing to spend and what you really want to buy.

 

I'd look at the sold cars... you can find info on sold listings in eBay and other places. Also go in with what other similar cars (options/miles) asking prices are. That way you are armed with comps, similar to house hunting.

There are plenty of 2012-13 458 spiders out on various sites listed in the low 200's (even ones with 30k miles in the upper 170s). Looks like there is a lot to choose from quite honestly. So I'd go in a couple grand lower than you think you should and see what you get. At the end of the day, what are they going to do... say "no"? Who cares... It's not like you're going to walk in and offer 150k on something priced at 225k and get laughed out as clearly you're here asking what is reasonable. If you guys are anywhere near making a deal, they'll do just that and try to make a deal. If it doesn't work out... there are plenty out there (around 50 on ebay as we speak, and 137 on Cars.com).

When I buy cars, I stop worrying about the dealer who has to feed his kids and how bad I should feel for them. Let them screw someone else. If the deal is good for both parties, it will get done.

 

I've always found that having my homework done can leads to a successful transaction.

• Know how many similar cars are in the market and where.
• Be able to contrast pricing / value of the competitive set of cars based on options, mileage, provenance. Support your offer with data.
• PROVENANCE is the be all and end all of Ferrari's
• Know all he history on your "subject" car you can including the number of days it's been for sale and if it is dealer owned or on consignment.
• If it's on consignment spend a little time to find out why... Often Ferrari dealers don't want to own inventory even when a customer has a new "F" car on the way. Sellers become a bit more malleable as their new arrival and balance due looms closer. Especially in states that have a sales tax differential.
• If you are purchasing through a Ferrari Dealer take a look at the next service due and Ferrari Power Warranty if offered or available as negotiating tools.

My recent horrible experience with RTGT in Portland and Steve Wintermantel prove there are Ferrari dealers who don't understand integrity at all and are willing to shame themselves in front of the Ferrari community.

At the same time I can also recommend several representatives at Ferrari dealers who have shown to be knowledgeable, forthright and understand that it's a Ferrari Community and they strive to develop long-term relationships.

Pay a fair price for a car you really want ..... As mentioned by others many values are like catching a falling knife .... You'll get cut until the pricing has hit bottom.

 

The reason I brought up depreciation is it is your real purchase price. I once brought a Maranello for $125k and sold it for $75k (on top of pouring money into it). I also once brought a Challenge Stradale for $205k and sold it for $205k. The value of modern Ferraris falls like keys out of Learjet once the warranty expires.This means you need to keep your acquisition cost as reasonable as possible to keep the depreciation hit to a minimum.

 

Keep in mind a lot of the cars on dealer lots are consignment cars. The dealer doesn't control the pricing.

 

^ This.

Always negotiate UP from your offer, not DOWN from their price.

And don't worry if they laugh at you, I'm sure you've been laughed at before. Always leave your card and tell them to call you if anything changes. You never know, tomorrow the owner may NEED to sell the car.

 

Buying a used anything is pretty much universal, the seller wants as much as they can get and the purchaser wants to save as much as they can. But if you do some homework as long as you purchase within a reasonable range of what a comparable car sales for your fine. I've even paid a bit more on a rare occasion just to end a search and never felt like I was taken to the cleaners.

Just make sure you get a PPI no matter what, and don't talk money until after that's done.

 

One last thought.... Ferrari's as mentioned are often on consignment... I've noticed that substantially more than other makes I've owned.

A dealer with a good reputation and professional ethics knows that every they are required to present every offer no matter what the terms to the seller. Don't get chased off by the off-handed "they will never take that" because they might. Or as mentioned earlier by others it sets the perimeters of the negotiation so that you aren't negotiating against yourself. .

Also... ALWAYS make the offer in writing, fax or PDF attached to an email. You want to take that time and make sure you have all the information and terms listed. That way there is no room for interpretation from the dealer to the actual owner / seller.

If a particular deal doesn't come together just realize that they want to own the car more than you do ... Except they are in the business of selling cars ....

 

This is why the closer the delivery date on the new car, the more the owner starts to sweat. Timing in life is everything.

 

Their position is "Let others be our bank" without cost .... Makes great business sense.....

 

i got a dealer down to $176 on a 2011 458 red/beige with 3400 miles that was listed at $185. i

 

Like any other high dollar purchase, you have to identify which comps matter to you. Color, options, miles, who the seller is (remember the old adage that you buy the seller not the car), number of owners, available service records, who will do a PPI for you......in my case, I'm not going to look at a car from Joe Blow auto sales in Idaho.

Once you go through those, the number of cars should dwindle to the point where you can have a reliable average, you may need to throw out a car or two that is WAY outside the curve....most likely that owner either overvalues the car or is not a motivated seller.. I then would contact the dealers in some order you choose and start talking money (I would always have some sort of framework around a price agreement before scheduling an inspection......And don't be afraid to provide a deposit (most are refundable). You are just another dreamer until you have skin in the game.

Offer wise, I usually try to go 10% below the average. So if the guy has an ask 5% above the average, better believe I'm going in at 15% back of ask.

And now you owe me a lunch.....LOL....not really, I need grubb

 

I have probably bought more cars than any sane person should. I have my eye on a 458 coupe (#466) right now, and just helped a friend purchase a FF (I have helped a lot of people both on here and not purchase a car). The basics of car buying is no different than anything else, and I live by this motto. A good deal is nothing more than a state of mind, and what a good deal is to you might not be to me or someone else who posted on this thread. NO ONE buys a 200K because they need it, you buy it because you want it, that always gives the seller an advantage (regardless of what anyone thinks), and believe me they know that. So my advise find the car that moves you (and get it checked out a Ferrari CPO is nice if you have a dealer close to you), and make the best deal you can. I have seen people look for months of years for that perfect deal (sometimes it never comes), I'd rather spend that time owning the car. After all how much is your time worth, when you come to an age where you have less of it left, it is priceless. I may be the extreme in many ways, but if you can afford a car like a 458, you are doing pretty well in your life, go reward yourself and enjoy. Keep in mind spring is in the air and as the temps rise sometimes the demand and the prices do too. Best of luck!

 

I disagree with your thoughts on amount of owners and here is why. Ferraris and other exotics tend to get passed around a lot especially early on in model run. I have always been told that the amount of owners a Ferrari has had is pretty minor so long as the title is clean. And the PPI doesn't come up with anything out of the ordinary.

Pretty much everything else is either advise I gave or have been given and I agree.