anyone install an oil catch can on their 458?

would not see a reason for a NA engined car.

 

I installed one on my 458 a few years ago and it stays fairly clean as in nothing but a very minor amount of oil collection. The main reason for this on this engine is because of the type of dry sump system Ferrari utilizes. They are using one of the 3 oil scavenge pumps as a blow by pressure release mechanism. In most IC engines the up and down motion of the pistons and the revolving motion of the crank causes pressure build up inside the block, and this motion stirs up the oil and creates an oil vapor. This pressure/oil vapor is released via the engines PCV system and normally this system is vented to the intake air stream. In the case of direct fuel injection there is no fuel being mixed with this oily air that is going over the intake valve to keep it clean, just air with a minor amount of oil in it which in turn gets burnt on to the valve. If you will notice on your 458 engine the PCV system has very small vent tubes attached to the cam covers(as compared larger tubes on almost all other engines) and larger tubes connecting the oil tank to the air stream. The 458 concept results in a cleaner PCV air stream. 458 engine's intake valves should stay cleaner over the miles compared to other engines with direct injection. The other problem that can occur in an engine is the effect of an EGR valve, but Ferrari does't use them on their engines at least not the ones I am familiar with. The EGR valve will add a bit of exhaust gas back into the intake air steam which can also collect on intake valves in a direct injection fuel system. BMW for example, has a heck of a problem with intake valves on their DI engines. Sorry for such a lengthy post, in answering your question I would add a catch can anyway they are inexpensive and easy to install and it does help some what, just not as much as on a 355 or 512TR etc.

 

Hi Llenroc,
sorry to revive an old post but I am right now considering a catch tank.
I of course agree that there's no big need for it on a dry-sump design, but on the other hand why not, given how simple it looks to have one.
Just I have a couple of questions for you:
1) can you tell me what hoses should be disconnected and routed to the catch tank? I think the small hoses that go onto the intake nipples that I circled in this picture, right? And then of course plug the opened sucking nipples.
2) is your catch tank sealed or vented? I am asking as venting it to the atmosphere looks to me like making the scavenging oil pumps life harder in de-pressing the crankcase, right? Otherwise we could even get rid of a tank and simply fit those paper venting filters, or nothing at all, but that to me would mostly have the effect of opening the crankcase for intake at every de-pressing pulse.
Thanks!

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Ah!
Maybe these... but I don't know how to remove my first picture...
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Your second dia. is the one I will refer to. The hoses marked 8 and 9 are the ones you splice the catch can into. I used a Morroso brand catch can, but any brand will work. You will want to use a Y fitting for 8 and 9 to attach to, then that end goes to the inlet on the can, next the output side is attached to a Y fitting and those Two lines are connected back the left and right intake bellows. If you have a early car the process is slightly different, there is a small vacuum line that needs to be dealt with. hope that helps.

 

Llenroc, thanks for your time and help.
Can you advice on a Y fitting with the correct male noozles to fit the open end connectors of the venting hoses? Or: what did you do with them? Did you cut them and use a sort of universal Y? I wouldn't like to cut the hoses... definitely I would like to leave them intact, with their connectors still on...
Thanks!

 

A little late to the party on this thread but I just cleaned the intake valves on my 458 which has 43k miles. They weren't terrible but they certainly weren't clean. In light of this I'm installing catch cans to hopefully prevent build up in the future. Seems like cheap insurance to me.

The cans will be installed on those hoses coming off the sides of the oil reservoir. I'm going to try and not do any permanent changes but I'm not sure it's possible. I'll update you on how it goes.

I used crushed walnut blasting to clean them and it was pretty easy. The walnut blasting kit was on Amazon for about $250.

Before
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After
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Looks better. Did you remove the left over walnut shells visible there in the 2nd photo?

I've also had good luck using Berryman B12 fuel injector cleaner to help dissolve carbon build up on other motors.

Ray

 

I didn't remove all the walnut fragments, but got as much as I could. They won't hurt anything so long as it's not a significant quantity of them.

 

Hopefully they find their way out without causing any issues.

Ray

 

They burn up, and they are soft. That's why we use Walnuts and not sand.

 

My job was a kid was cracking all the walnuts that fell off my Dad's walnut tree out back. I'm not sure I'd describe them as soft

Ray

 

Soft is a relative term... Metal is hard enough to not be damaged by crushed Walnuts. But sand is hard enough to damage metal. So yes they are hard, but also soft. Lol.

 

OK, my video on cleaning the valves with the crushed walnuts is out. Installation of the catch cans is coming soon. They were very easy to install and hopefully will eliminate or certainly reduce the need for future valve cleaning. Honestly the worst part was just the intake R&R. The actual walnut blasting was pretty simple. It did work best when I scraped the big chunks off using a plastic scraper. I suspect if you have a more powerful compressor or higher pressure it may do a better job.

I know lots of people will suggest that I should have used dry ice blasting instead of walnuts... Well, I may have to try that next time... If there is a next time.

 

I commend you for tackling the job. Very interesting to see how much build up there was also.

One thing I would suggest, if you do the job in the future, is to buy yourself some Berryman B12 fuel injector cleaner (the one in the can, not the spay bottle). Then with the valve closed, fill up the area with cleaner and allow it to soak for 30-60 minutes (or over night). You'd be surprised how well it dissolves carbon. I've used it to dissolve carbon off the tops of pistons and it's the only thing I have found which works worth a darn. For any injector cleaner which gets past the valves and down into the crankcase, you might want to also change your oil at the same time. I suspect using the Berryman fuel injector cleaner either before and/or after would leave things super shiny in there. I think it would also help mitigate any residual walnut shells being left behind.

If you haven't sealed things back up yet, I still say go in there and remove those residual chunks of shell. "Soft" or not, I think it's not a good idea to have that sort of stuff going through the motor and potentially finding its way down into the piston rings, bearings, oiling system, etc.

Ray

 

That's a good tip. I would like to try the dry ice method as well at some time in the future... But this one is already sealed up.

 

4 w km means 40,000 km
"w" is short for "wan", which in chinese means 10 thousand.
We say the letter "w" all the time, to the point that we thought it was an original English word.
LOL

 

the trick to walnut blasting is narrow nozzle and firing the shells in and sucking with shop vac at same time. Then blow out with air gun as you vac. This way the shells clean everything and don’t leave the residue ring by the valve head interface and all the shell it removed. Solvent is not needed and just makes more mess. It takes about 10 sec a hole and you are done.

 

Cleaning carbon off is always a nightmare. I just had to clean the piston in one of my chainsaws. I tried to use cleaner through the exhaust port and finally just gave up and took the cylinder head off. The only thing which really worked well was a razor blade, scraping perfectly perpendicular across the top, then followed up with #1000 sandpaper and some metal polish. I did have pretty good luck dissolving the carbon off the tops of the pistons in my Toyota pickup using Berryman B12 fuel injector cleaner and a tooth brush, however.

Personally I wouldn't use walnut blasting myself. I think some form of vapor blasting is about as far as I would go, when it comes to exposing the engine internals to any sort of media.

Ray

 

Walnut is the best and pretty much SOP since all modern cars are direct injection and no fuel cleaner is going to help those. On Ferraris with belts totally easy when doing majors. Cams out all valves closed. These take about 10 sec/hole to blast out then compressed air while shop vac and 100% of walnut shell is gone and if any left the wood will burn right through.

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As long as you clean it all out 100%, then okay fine. But I still don't buy into this whole "any remaining walnut shells will burn right through" idea, nor this absolute fantasy that somehow "Walnut shells are soft".

Here's a chart showing blasting media, their properties and hardnesses, etc.:

https://www.kramerindustriesonline.com/blasting-media-comparison-chart/

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As highlighted above, some walnut shells can potentially be just shy of glass beads when it comes to hardness. Other varieties are down more around 3.5-4 Moh, but even so that's not exactly soft.

Personally, I've blasted using both glass beads, walnut shells, as well as aluminum oxide (and even baking soda) - and Walnut shells (depending on which type of tree they originated from) are still quite capable of changing tolerances on parts and/or leaving surface roughness, etc.

My main concern here would be if some of those residual shells dislodge and end up scratching the cylinder walls (by becoming stuck around the top edge of the piston). I don't know if they could pulverize further and end up circulating through the oiling system, but obviously if that happened, it could negatively impact a lot of delicate areas of the motor.

I hope it all works out okay for Daniel and I really enjoy his YouTube channel, but seeing those shells left behind really makes me nervous as an engine builder myself.

Ray

 

To be clear, I did clean out the remaining shells more than is apparent in the pictures and video.... There was basically nothing left. I feel pretty darn confident it's fine. Further, I did an oil change after letting the engine run for a while at low rpm's to make sure any particles from the blasting would be removed out of the oil circulation.

 

That's good to hear. I can sleep a little more soundly tonight

Ray