New Plane Market in 2018 | Page 2 | FerrariChat

New Plane Market in 2018

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by rob lay, Dec 19, 2017.

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  1. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    That's a good way to go about it, nothing wrong with 152. There are a few advantages bigger school more planes and instructors Part 141. The MOST ecconomical approach is either buy a plane and get a young instructor trying to build ATP hours or find older instructor who owns plane and does it for fun on side.
     
  2. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    I actually love the diamonds looks and fuel efficiency, not the best speed or load. I would also be afraid to own plane company uncertainty.
     
  3. joker57676

    joker57676 Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Damn. I think I was about $80-90/hour when I trained in a 152. I think that went up to a $110/hour when I moved into a 172.
     
  4. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    150 is $90/hour at the airport they fly at. Instructor is extra, obviously.
     
  5. joker57676

    joker57676 Two Time F1 World Champ

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    I was meaning plane (wet) plus instructor.
     
  6. 997usa

    997usa Formula Junior

    Dec 10, 2014
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    Just one remark, the TTx does NOT have a larger useful load than the SR22, at least not when full fuel and similarly equipped avionics.

    Of all single engine piston, the SR22 is the only one that you can fill up with full fuel, carry 600lbs pay load, and can land and take off at max gross weight of 3600....




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  7. 997usa

    997usa Formula Junior

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    The DA50 platform with a turbine or diesel and pressurization would get my vote


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  8. 997usa

    997usa Formula Junior

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  9. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    you are right, my quick math was off. Cirrus has lower empty and smaller tanks. TTx does have 22 more knots and 250 more range.

    are people running the Cirrus LOP now? that's one thing I loved about the 400 was 13-15 GPH at 190 knots.
     
  10. joker57676

    joker57676 Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Speaking of the DA50, did someone mention ugly planes??? :D Good god that demo plane is ugly.

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  11. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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  12. joker57676

    joker57676 Two Time F1 World Champ

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  13. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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  14. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    The upcoming 7-seat DA50 will apparently be available as a retractable with a turboprop option.
     
  15. 997usa

    997usa Formula Junior

    Dec 10, 2014
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    Hi Rob,

    Yes, the TTx does have quite a higher top speed; the SR22 can be run RoP or LoP, the TAS RoP for the NA is 183 v 196 in the 22T; burn rate in the 22NA RoP is approx 20G and LoP approx 13;

    I am a BIG fan of the TTx, love the G2000’s and overall believe it’s a better plane, however, in reviewing the useful load, and physical space, the Cirrus became my choice.



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  16. joker57676

    joker57676 Two Time F1 World Champ

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    The turboprop doesn’t interest me much. That market must be minimal at best. The real intriguing plane, to me at least, is the 7-seat, 350hp jet-A burning diesel. That’s nearly as much power as the DA62, so it should be quite a performer. If I remember right, Diamond coaxed just about 200mph out of the 260hp, so with 350hp, it should really move and carry a big load.
     
  17. ersatzS2

    ersatzS2 Formula Junior
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    Jan 24, 2009
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    I've had same reservations, and the DA40 I fly has been down now two weeks waiting for a fuel gauge sender to arrive (or even be located) so support is a real issue. Diamond like practically everyone else save Textron has found Chinese owners, hopefully they will be as supportive as have been Cirrus's owners.

    http://www.lfpress.com/2017/12/27/full-takeover-of-diamond-canada-by-chinese-co-owner-heralds-growth-ceo-says
     
  18. cheesey

    cheesey Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2011
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    no one has addressed the product liability insurance of the manufacturer included in the price of every new plane. It is outrageous expressed as a percentage of purchase price. Planes would be reasonable without the product liability insurance . At one time off shore manufacturers and sellers could offer planes at substantially lower prices vs buying planes built in the USA.
     
  19. Hannibal308

    Hannibal308 F1 Veteran
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    My 19 y/o son, who recently got his PPL in rotary, now flies fixed wing with a really small rural school and gets his flight time by washing and fueling planes for the school...paid in flight time only. His IP is his high school best friend who's parents own the flight school and he teaches him gratis. Even I'm jealous! At least I no longer have to help pay for lessons in rotary...we had been splitting the flight hour cost 50/50 with him also paying everything else with his In-n-Out Burger money. He studies very hard, and got his rotary PPL in 43 hours. Now the aviation fire is truly well-lit in him. I think there are a lot of young people who will still find ways to make it work and GA will live on. I'm very near to getting back into GA after a 35 year hiatus. Flying is just fun...even if it's work!

    Edit: Sorry, I read the first thread page and didn't realize we had moved way beyond lamenting the impending demise of GA.
     
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  20. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I'm really glad to hear that-- thanks for posting! We need more young people in GA.
     
  21. mikesufka

    mikesufka F1 Veteran
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    Not into aviation, but just curious ...

    What’s a new Baron cost vs a Pilatus ? Is that in the same market ?

    I know a gentleman who I believe is on his 2nd or 3rd Global. It’s hard for me to wrap my little head ( and wallet ) around what kind of money he has, but he is a very generous guy who helped me out with a hobby of mine. Oh, he also owns a Bel 429. Gotta love successful people.

    MDS
     
  22. 997usa

    997usa Formula Junior

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    Baron is $1.4M new Pilatus 4.8M new. Totally different market and ‘mission’

    Baron typically flies around 170kts, Pilatus 285kts; Baron around 9k ft, Pilatus 27k ft; baron has 6 seats, but with full fuel, 1.5 seats, Pilatus has up to 8 seats, with full fuel 8 seat, baron has twin piston engines, Pilatus single turbo prop,

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  23. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I really don't understand why anyone buys a new Baron... not that there is anything wrong with a Baron, but $1.4 million can get you a lot of airplane! $1.4 million can get you a used Pilatus, for that matter...

    Okay, the Pilatus and Baron are not really comparable, but $1.4 million can get you a used Citation Mustang, or a fantastic used Eclipse, and both of those (particularly the Eclipse) are comparable in cabin size and range to the Baron, and do everything much better.
     
  24. sigar

    sigar F1 Rookie
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    Apr 30, 2005
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    My initial reaction is the buyers must be old guys with money to burn that have always flown barons and don’t want to change and learn new systems. But, they would probably want steam gauges too, so I’m stumped.
     
  25. mikesufka

    mikesufka F1 Veteran
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    For what it’s worth ( zero ), I think the name “Baron” is pretty cool

    “Yeah, that’s my Baron in the hanger next to the Ferrari ...”

    LOL

    MDS
     
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