430 does not shift fast enough for me can i get a challenge 430 tcu?

I cant really help you technically speaking but I'm pretty sure the 360 CS and the 430 share the same tcu. This would mean that the shift times are equally fast; as a result the 430 beats it in a line due to the extra power.

 

Dont hold me to it but Im almost positive that I've read on here that they are they same thing.

If they are the same then there would be no reason to put a CS TCU in a 430, unless one was broken, but then one car would be without one. One of the many helpful members on here will provide further assistance.

 

Phil- There were three F1 ECUs/TCUs for the 430, one for pre-06 MY cars, one for 06-07 MY and one for 08 and later cars. The two later F1 ECUs/TCUs should all be compatible and quicker than the early F1 ECU/TCU. Even quicker would be a Scuderia/16M TCU if it will work. Part number for that is 248165. You will probably have to ask a dealer about compatibility. The F430 and 360 CS have different transmissions, so the CS TCU will probably not work. The TCU needs to be compatible with the Motronic ECU and the 360 is 7.3 and the F430 is 7.1.1, so no compatibility.

The Challenge TCU might not be good for a street application. A quicker street ECU is probably a better bet. Looks like prices for 430 F1 ECUs run $1000-2200 or so. No idea on the Scud ECU. Contact Ricambi to find out.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Taz, I was hoping you would chime in here. Can you tell me for reference purposes what the CS and 430 share? I could've sworn it was the TCU. I guess I'm not the encyclopedia I always wanted to be

 

Rob- As far as I know, it is only the rear exhaust system, wheels, CCM brakes, some relays and fasteners. The DME (Digital Motronic ECU) for the CS is Motronic 7.3, I believe, like the rest of the 360s, and the F430 is 7.1.1 (I know), so most ECUs on the CAN are incompatible between the two. On many earlier models ECUs were shared across DME 2.7, 5.2, 7.3, and 7.1.1 cars, like the catalyst ECUs, but for the F430 a new architecture and even new cat ECUs.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

The Scud shifts faster because it has different internals and higher pressures in the hydraulics.

The shifting forks have been shaved to make it a quicker throw between gears.

The easiest way to get your car to shift faster is... buy a Scud or 16m.

 

Phil- Just looked and the CS and F430 both have the same minimum shift time of 150 ms, so the difference is only your perception and possibly the later F430 software making for smoother shifts, even at redline. Facts is facts.

Like bdelp said, if you want faster shifting, get a Scud with 60 ms shifting.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Try it again with the CST off. When shifting from 1st to 2nd at full throttle, the traction control cuts in to reduce wheel spin. When this happens, the gear change does feel weird as if the car is double shifting.

 

Whaaa? 06-later faster shift than 05 MY?

 

I looked into this (making shifts faster) for my Gallardo, even bought an ECU and my shop and I tried to see if it was really possible (like some tuners claim). I will not go into what we found out, but through some playing around with the car (remember my car is RWD aand has no traction control), and the ECU I found out that the car shifts at different speeds at different parts of the powerband, and in different gears that changed as well. Now my car does not have it original clutch or original ECU, those were both updated before I bought the car. My 430 was a gearshift and I've only driven a F1 once, but I thought it shifted pretty fast, though I drive a bit differently, never take my foot of the gas, and never use traction control. You might try shifting at different points in the powerband, it might halp, and these cars love being driven hard, they respond so much better then they are.

 

alcc- Maybe, maybe not? Who knows? Insufficient data to know for sure right now. In general, later F1 ECUs for the same model offer improved shifting and engagement on starts, and some offer longer clutch lives, and some offer increased speed. Not sure what applies to the improved F430 ECUs.

All the published data says the 360 and F430 have the same 150 ms min shift time (even early 360s), as does the CS, so....

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Faster shifts are alway fun but I must admit we have become spoiled over time when whe think/feel??? that 150ms is not fast enough.

Hope we find out more, but in the mean time I am OK with 150ms.

And I agree that some of what might be felt is the traction control. Turn it all off and see how it goes.

Just make sure you are in a very safe place before you floor the gas ...........Steve

 

Okay hate to bring back an old thread but since I just bought a 07 430 F1, I am. I have read that the F1 is better in the 08 cars, exactly what was done to make it better (is it a different TCU ), and can the 07 be updated?

 

Morrie, Im not sure if you’ve driven your F430 yet but I’m not sure what you could read that could possibly make with someone with your seemingly deep wealth of experience believe that there is a material difference in shifting between an ‘07 and ‘08 non Scuderia F430. Here is the list that I’ve compiled from various sources (including some great data from Mark Stewart) of running changes through the production and you tell me what you see.

For the record, the Scud has a completely different F1 shift mechanism and it is substantially faster (like half the time) but that’s not what you’re talking about. Anyways, the last part of the file is attached. The blacked out part is my F430 just for my own reference.


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Actually no I have not driven it yet, but I heard from someone who had a 07 and a 09 that there was a difference. Since my previous 430 was a gearshift I thought I'd see if this person was correct. I do know that the Scud has a different system, and the changes are a lot more than just a TCU. If there is one thing I've learned after all these years is that you can always learn something new, though it seems in this case there is not something new to learn. Thanks!

 

The hydraulic element of F1 is identical between pre-09/2007 and post 09/2007 (MY08), however MY08 cars have the CFC301 generation of TCU which has significant changes to its operation, and one benefit of its 'SOFAST III' software is a max shift speed of 120ms vs 160ms of the pre 2008 cars.

Changing from CFC231 to CFC301 is a significant job and would include changing the engine ECUs, F1 wiring loom, and of course TCU. The software is not back-portable.

 

Mark, I think that we have discussed this before but did the US 2008 cars get CFC301? The notes indicate that they did not and when I was shopping I drove several 2008 and one 2009 F430 and did not perceive a noticeable difference in shifting between that and my 2007. I did notice a difference with the one 2005 car I drove in that it didn't seem as crisp or as fast.

 

I recently bought and installed the Smart eMT F1 relay ECU from Scud Swiss Ing for my ‘06 F430 and it made a world of difference! The shifting has become so much smoother and quicker it’s amazing. Sometimes I feel like I’m shifting a dual clutch. It’s that smooth. In all my years of owning and buying mods for cars, this is hands down, the best $200 on a mod I’ve ever spent!

 

I agree I just got the smart relay as well and the shifts are definitely smoother though I can’t say faster as of yet. Only had a 5 minute drive since I installed it. Not entirely sure I like the smoother shifts though I liked the violent shifts it used to have.


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This is what I like to see different opinions. I never owned a F1 430, and after the difference the CS TCU made in my very brief ownership of the 99 360, I was curious to see what if anything can be done to a 430 (I should probably drive it first but it is still at Algar). If I remember correctly there are varying opinions about the relay, but I just bought one and I will see how it works for me.

 

this smart relay you speak of.. is it easy to install? what is the main purpose for it? to make the F1 shift faster? I am interested...thank you

 

Bastuna, You definitely got the CFC301. I compiled data on TCUs and software during my research and confirmed the part numbers against physical TCUs - either for sale, or from workshop experience.

Setting off in a MY08 should be smoother and overall clutch modulation better. There are two stages to the shift speed depending on throttle input: over something like 40% throttle the engine ECUs behave differently during the shifting process, and the 120ms shifts are accessible in Race, or Sport.

Other settings like Auto, Ice, and Wet/Slippery are as per pre-07.

See attached for some of my data. Image Unavailable, Please Login