612 HGTS and GTC packages

Yup, they were increased in size from the 575M (330/310 mm) to 345 mm F and 330 mm R.

 

Taz, nice to e-meet you.
From everything I read, you are one of the stars of Ferrari Chat. I was wondering if there was a way to determine whether my HGTS 612, a June 2008 car might have the upgraded Motronic 7.3.2, despite it on the face of things being a Gen 1 car. Is there any way to work this out? Can I also ascertain whether the transmission is Superfast or not from the VIN number?

All the best,

J

 

My 612 is no. 160338.
It is an OTO with HGT2 & 20” wheels & CC brakes & “super fast” F1
7.3.2 on “window sticker”
Mfg in Apr of ‘08
I’m sure all 612s with higher numbers ( & maybe some lower) are OTO

 

Jit- Affirmative, your 612 should have Motronic 7.3.2. 7.3.2 was introduced in Fall 2007 on the standard 612s. We call those late 07s and early 08s interim 612s because they had a bunch of upgrades, but were built before the OTOs came out in Spring 2008. The Sessantas had all the OTO features and served as prototypes for the OTOs.

If you give us the serial number, we can probably tell for sure like F612 said.

 

612s from VIN ~157000 ( production date from September 2007 ) have Motronic 7.3.2,

 

I guess the there were no MY07 612s with 7.3.2 - when MY changed to 08 the cars were quipped with the new ECU? Mine is 157980 and even it has "HGT2" package, it's still called as HGTC. Production date November/December 2007. The name of "HGTC" package was changed to "HGT2" for pre-oto cars made January-March 2008.

 

Taz, F612,

Thank you so much guys. I really appreciate the input.
My 612 (soon to be delivered) is serial number is 158184.
If you can shed any light on the F1 gearbox too, that would be wonderful.
The spec still lists HGTS as the option so it wasn't HGT2 even in June 2008... this car did go to the Middle East initially however so I am not sure if that made a difference.

All the best,

Jit

 

Thank you FIN612

 

I guess you mean that the car was registered or delivered to the first owner in June 2008? Production date of 158184 should be early December 2007, so it's still time of GTS/GTC package. You can chck the exact production date from the factory database. The cars from December 2007 have upgraded TCU software with 20% shorter shift time in normal drive and " up to 30% faster in more aggressive situations " The transmission is still FI-A with single disk clutch. No manettino = No FI-S .

This info about HGT2 has been posted by Taz quite a few times:

 

Dear FIN612,

Thank you so much for all of the extra detail and information.
Looking at the official Ferrari Technical Statement that was commissioned by the last owner, the car was manufactured in January 2008. So I guess it will benefit from the upgraded TCU software. The spec on the order form still states HGTS so this is definitely consistent with what you said about the dates of the more advanced packages coming into production.

Thanks again... will let you all have some pics when it is finally in my possession.

J

 

Yup, yours is an interim 612 with 7.3.2 and the min shift time improved to about 125 ms from 180 ms. That improvement came on all interim 612s, whether HGT2 or not. CCMs were sometimes shown as a separate option combined with HGT2 and some Monroney window stickers still showed HGTC combining HGT2 and CCMs. Ferrari is definitely inconsistent on this one.

 

Strange that Ferrari waited until MY2008 to upgrade the Motronic. That same upgrade occurred on the Maserati QP for MY2007 and they share much of the same engine control system components (minus that one year shift in Motronic upgrade).

I have a 2006 612 and owned the 2007 QP F1 so I have direct experience with this question. Still confused why Ferrari/Maserati did this...

 

I am not convinced that some of the late 07s did not have 7.3.2, but do not have any proof. I have window stickers from MY 05/06 and MY 08 612s, but nothing from MY 07.

 

Thank you Taz, I know the OTOs came with a further improvement down to 100ms on the shift time (i.e. 599 GTB) but I doubt I will miss the 25ms too much! I think even the 599 GTO was just 60ms by the time of production.

 

hi taz - ok, thank you for all the information you have on seemingly everything ferrari. i am trying to sort this out in my head. i have an 06 612 w/GTS package and the window sticker says motronic 7.3.2. is that right? it seems too early for the timeline described above.

 

Beats me. The Daytonas did not get it until 2007 and ~SN 156938 and I thought the 612s got it about the same time. Only way to tell would be to look at the sticker on the Motronic ECU.

 

How can I tell if a 2010 612 OTO has the HGTS package or the HGTC package?

 

Reading post # 22 might help ?

 

I have now personally re-flashed several Ferriari ecu's including a 430 ecu, my own early (2005) 612, and a late 612 OTO. They all use the same ecu - Bosch 7.3.2. There are major changes in the firmware to all of these ecu's, but they are all identical hardware (bosch part number 0 261 208 592). They are the same hardware as 599. I've also flashed a late 575 ecu, which was almost the same (bosch part number 0 261 206 950)- this used the same flashing protocol (its recognised by both my Ktag and Galletto as Bosch 7.3.2), but uses a different checksum algorithm (found this out the hard way!) They use different assignments for the GPIO pins, and generally you can see that the utilisation of the flash memory increases with the later cars (more code stuffed in there). I've not tried it, but I suspect there is a good chance you could run a 575 ecu in a 430/599 with the correct firmware loaded onto it.

Furthermore, the same bosch part number is used on Maserati Quatroporte and Grandturismo, which you can buy at a much lower cost- good tip if you ever need to replace your ecu's. This is effectively a Ferrari/Maserati specific ecu- very similar to other Me7.1 and 7.5 ecus (as used by VAG among others) with 6 line drivers, just with additional wiring to allow the two ecu's to talk to each other.

Taz, I fully respect that you have Ferrari documentation that states 7.1.1 was used in 575 and early 612, but I just cant see this being the case. It doesn't fit with what I've seen first hand. Additionally, whilst the Ferrari ecu's don't state the Motronic version on the cover, the Vag ones do. If you find an ecu for a C7 Audi A6 2.7, you will see that it states "ME.7.1.1" on the label, and the Bosch part number is 0 261 207 766 (see below). If I look this car up in my Ktag software, it brings up a different communication protol as well, so it is significantly different. I can't see then how any Ferrari ecus used Me7.1.1. This is surely a mistake in the Ferrari literature that got carried through the years? I appreciate that this would be a big mistake, as even the workshop manual states Me7.1.1, but unless you can find me a Ferrari with a Bosch part number 0 261 207 766 on it, then I can't accept 7.1.1 ever got fitted to a Ferrari. Lets face it, this wouldn't be the first time an Italian car manufacturer has gotten their technical literature wrong- some of the stuff like wiring info provided for modern Lamborghini's is hilariously inaccurate.


Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

whooa - you are saying you can flash a 430 and 612 oto to improve shift times?? can you quanitfy by how much? i potentially have 3 orders!

 

I made a lot of research a couple years ago to understand which Ferrari ECUs are 7.1.1 and which ones 7.3.2 . I compared photos of tens of ECUs and the texts / serial numbersof 430,599 and 612 . Also i compared with some other cars with same ECU types. I am almost sure that " Motronic 1159 XXXX " and " 810 " in the small box is 7.1.1 ( early 599s and 612 up to 07 as well as all early 430s ) . "Motronic 1126 XXXX " and "944 " in thre small box are 7.3.2 . I can be wrong but i used tens of hours to mach numners and ECU / cars production dates and well as ECU serial numbers . If you have 06/07 612 or 06/07 599 please check do you have " Motronic 1159 or 1126 and 810/944 . Most probably they are all 1159 ones. I will post some pictures later today.

 

Hold your horses... that, alas, is not what I'm saying. To get the faster shift times you need to update the firmware on the gearbox ecu (TCU). This is certainly possible, and eric355 offers this service for 360 owners (for which later 360's use the same TCU hardware as 612). I'm not sure whether he has a data dump from a late model or HGTS 612 though. Anyone want to donate one for testing? The simple fact is there are fewer 612's out there compared with 360's, and a smaller pool of owners interested in modifying/updating their cars.

The one I would like to do is update the suspension ecu firmware to HGTS spec. The 575 guys have done this many times, so again its not a new thing, its just the lack of a source for a data dump. People that have HGTS ecu's aren't interested in updating, so aren't going to be interested in pulling their firmware and sharing with the community.

 

I have a spare TCU taken out from a March 08 612. It has that "125ms" tune which was available just Dec 07-March 08 HGT2s. The fastest one before OTOs.

 

What’s the big deal? Eurocharged been doing that for years: https://www.eurocharged.com/ecutuning/all-products/ferrari-en


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

That's engine ECU tuning to get more power / torque . Now we are talking about transmission ECUs ie TCUs to improve shift times.