Pista Allocation

The Speciale also started at a fairly reasonable MSRP, so I believe it's easier to sustain its value.
With the Pista Ferrari has stretched the price to new levels for a V8 special (not limited) edition, so maintaining (or exceeding it) will be a tougher job.
Regarding taxes, I would assume that whereas one does not have to report a loss on a car sale (because typically there is no reason to do that), it could actually be done if a gain on another sale is declared at the same time, so that the taxed gain could actually be decreased by the loss.

 

The only way an individual is going to make a profit by flipping a Pista is if they no longer want to have any relationship with their dealer and/or Ferrari. IF you are able to order a new Pista you will have to sign a two (2) year contract with Ferrari that gives them the exclusive right to buy the car back, and the most they will pay is MSRP. The dealer will then resell the car above MSRP, but the individual will not benefit in the upside. If the original owner keeps the car in excess of two years and then sells the car they might realize a profit if the cars are still above MSRP, but they still run the risk of damaging their relationship with the dealer.

 

One year dealer buyback agreement not two, unless your dealer is doing something different than everyone else.

 

Not the case for me. Our agreement is no sale for 6 months on the lusso and the pista. I’m not obligated to sell the car back to them and certainly will not do so for msrp.

 

My hard loaded 720s was $390k msrp and Ferrari is a much stronger brand. 720 is a turbo v8. If one car afford a $350k car, then one should be able to figure out a way to pay $100k more for a track spec Rarri.

Also, the speciale market is on a downward slope. Cars are being unloaded in anticipation of the pista. The pista will be the most powerful v8 ever from the brand. Guys are paying $75 over on a gt3rs.2. Early allocation pista is a no brainer. Ferrari will not flood the market. The pista will be sought after.

I’m with you on the taxes.

 

Can't help it. 3500 pastas. That can feed a lot of people

 

Pista will be an easy $75 flip after 6 months (especially an early allocation).

Porsche is getting $25 over on gt3’s and 75+ on gt3.rs.

812’s are 100+ over.

The 488 is wiping the floor with the speciale performance wise which is why speciale is on a downward trend prior to pista arriving.

I keep all my cars in excellent condition (ppf from mile 1) and I simply don’t have the time to put more than 1k miles on any one car in a 6 month period.

Sales tax is not a variable with MT reg.

I don’t believe there is a taxable gain if you never touch the money and I always roll it into the next purchase. Effectively it’s a tax differed exchange like a real estate 1031.

I expect to loose $40k in 6 months on every car I buy. If I do any better, it’s all gravy to me.

 

Any $400k+ car is exclusive.

 

there are no 1031s for autos, especially the way the rule was rewritten. The intent is for you to pay on any gain at the time of sale, regardless if you roll any pretax gain into equity in another.

 

Hard to label it as income if you never received the money.

 

Among the average population? OK. But, for those who know, no.

 

Maybe let your driver chauffeur you in your GTC4Lusso. In all seriousness, the sportiest cars that are chauffeur driven I know of are the Bentley Bentayga, Porsche Panamera, Cayenne S and Maserati Quattroporte. However, the richest person I know of ($3B net worth) is driven in a RR Phantom EWB and Mercedes-Maybach S600, occasionally Cayenne S.

 

I am replying to all of your points. What is MT reg deal? If your dealer helped you get a MSRP Pista allocation, you should reciprocate and sell it back to them at a fair price. What does hard loaded mean? 390k MSRP for 720S is low, BTW. How is Ferrari a stronger brand? One shouldn't be able to handle a 30% more expensive car. That logic doesn't make sense. The Speciale market isn't on a downward slope as it is the last NA V8 from Ferrari. Modern cars are better in performance but worse in value compared to the classics. Most buying a GT3RS aren't paying over MSRP, let alone 75k. Ferrari will produce sufficient Pistas. Also, GT3s are going for MSRP and the Pista won't be an easy flip. 812s are MSRP. PPF from mile 1 isn't excellent condition. What kind of PPF from which store? Why not paint correction? Or keep it in as delivered condition? Are your cars climate conditioned and garaged? Not washed or rained on? Not any 400k+ car is exclusive. They are only limited insofar as the number of people who can purchase them. You aren't very nice.

 

One coffee too many today perhaps?

 

I’ll try to hit all you points:

- Sales tax in MT is 0%

- I helped the dealer move a lusso at msrp. I don’t owe them any favors.

-$390k msrp is low for a 720? Maybe in Canadian dollars. Checking every option on the 720 gets you to $400k in the US. Hard loaded = fully loaded.

- Ferrari has much more experience in retail sales. There are many more Rarri collectors than mclaren collectors. Rarri know how to play the marketing game. Mclaren is starting to learn.

- Speciale market is down. 30 cars for sales today vs 15 this time last year. This forum has other threads on that. Simply guys unloading and making room for pista. Not saying down long term but short term that market is soft.

- gt3rs (.2) that car is not out yet. Early allocation cars are min 25 over unless you own a 918. Many guys being ejected at 25 over. Some are getting an allocation at 75 over.

-gt3.2 was getting $20 over at the open. Not sure when that market is now as I don’t shop that car much.

-812 is at msrp in the US. Really? Where? I’ll take one.

-ppf is xpel and after a paint correction.

-I like to drive the cars a little. No need to make them complete garage queens.

- doesn’t limited = exclusive?

- I’m not very nice? Honey, is that you?

 

That doesn't work since you can't claim deductions for losses on personal purchases. You'd have to be buying/selling as a business for that to happen and only be using it for business purposes.

 

It's definitely not hard as far as the IRS is concerned. 1031 is being further defined now and is only valid for real estate. The IRS only cares about your gain amount in USD terms. Whether you get that money or some other object is irrelevant because the sale is recorded somewhere for a dollar amount. If you gain, you pay.

 

You need to sit down with your CPA. It's possible in many ways to have tax liability without getting funds

 

My cars are all owned buy one of my businesses so not really personal. These cars are an ‘essential’ part of my business

 

This conversation is not directed towards car dealers. If your exotics are not actually used to generate revenue, it's highly unlikely you're appropriately claiming them as assets/expenses. I'd advise you not to continue to self-incriminate yourself by posting about using your cars for personal reasons should the IRS ever get suspicious.

I'm sure the IRS would be very interested to know how essential they are and how you aren't using them for any personal reasons while posting about having your wife and kids in the backseat of your Lusso.

 

Exactly

 

It is really, really, really difficult to get the IRS to allow a business deduction on a Ferrari, or any exotic for that matter. There are certainly legit exceptions, but for 99% of owners, forget it. You might think it's okay because you've managed to file returns that have not been questioned, but get audited and unless you are in the 1% exception, you will not be happy with the audit results. I'm now a recovering lawyer, but have defended this issue twice for clients in the past, good arguments, arguably legit deductions, but lost in both cases.

Jim

 

And keep in mind the penalties associated with it. If you get audited and lose on something you claimed years ago, you're in a world of hurt for penalties and interest over those years. They don't charge you 5 year treasury rates...

 

You are a business owner, buy a 250k mercedes S65 AMG. You use it for business purpose, go to meetings, take clients out.
Like any company car, you take your kids to school in the am and do grocery shopping during the week end.
At the end of the year you pay income tax on the portion of personal use you do of the company vehicle.

I don't see an issue doing the above with a Mercedes, making sure you don't take deductions above the IRS limit (which are low), and as long as you pay income tax on your share for personal use.
I don't see an issue doing it with a Ferrari provided that you actually use the car for business purpose.
If your company does not lease the car (which seems like having no deduction limit provided that a certain type of lease is met) but owns it, you can elect for capital loss the day you sell it.

Am I missing something?

 

Not sure how having fam sit in the car constitutes personal use. Obviously you’re not an attorney.