My (Bob) Norwood Experience

Another gem regarding Mr. Buckley, post #18 from 2011 in this great thread about Tom Meade: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/tom-meade-car-designer.422255/#post-140814078

"I'll clear some space. Tristram Buckley was my first experience with Ferraris. I was looking for a series 1 330, he had one advertised in FML. After countless questions by me that got answers from him that I tried to parse he told me that there were others coming to look at the car and I would have to send him a deposit to hold it, which I did. He suggested a place to have an inspection done. I still remember how surprised I was when the shop called me back telling me the car was in such crap shape they didn't even think it was worth doing a leak down test. Months later while in LA I saw the car for myself at another shop, it had rust on the dashboard! You could see the ground when you opened the trunk. Needless to say Tristram refused to return my deposit. You never forget your first time. Hah."

There's lots more, Russ. The point being made is that there was more than enough warnings here about doing business with Buckley over a period greater than a decade, if you had bothered to look.

 

Wow.

Russ Gould hasn’t learned much in the past year and a half, has he?

Except how to complain more!



Matt

 

One word screams out from this thread and the earlier one relating to the seller, and that is NAIVE.

In an ideal world even the gullible should not be ripped off, but oh boy the OP clearly has lived in a space where people are genuinely good and honest, and I have never managed to find that utopia.

No one buys someone else's bitsa project sight unseen and has it then shipped by a third party on top!. This project was a disaster from the off. They are always sold like this when the owner realises they are a money pit.

Clearly Norwood has taken on something that no one, even the best out there would have touched with a barge pole, unless there was a clear understanding from the off by all parties that this was a money no quibble ongoing project that would cost vastly more than the end result could ever be worth.

Norwood has simply had enough of it, and wants it gone unfinished, but not before he recovers his dubious costs, and wants no liability what so ever for the unfinished botch job that is going to need another pot of gold thrown at it before its ever driveable, and given the mismatch of untested components then this thing will be like the Homer to use anyway.

Even now if the OP manages to retrieve the project, it easily needs another 30k thrown at it just to make is usable, and the end result will probably not be worth much more than that regardless.

Cut your losses, retrieve the car through the courts and part it out is the best that can be achieved now. It looks ok in the pics, but just the stories about the brakes makes me realise up close its probably still a basket case.

 

Great write-up. Looking at the pictures, I ASSUME that the "GTO" badge(s) will be removed, correct?

 

I find this troubling. Technically - yes, all the valve does is "turn on a dash light". However, it activates the dash light to inform you that half the system has lost hydraulic pressure. What was Bob's plan to modify the brake circuit to keep this safety feature in place?

 

Bob's plan was to turn the car over the Russ with no brakes at all. And this is why he wants the release signed.

 

I would never take on a Frankenstein project. My preference would be to win the lottery and buy a real one, and that is why I don't have one. My wife knows that an F40 will show up if we won the powerball.

 

This whole saga is starting to become very clear with what’s going on here.
( at least for me anyway)

 

I noticed that as well. I think I counted 5-6 "Heater" listings on one invoice, including new heater boxes. What was going on with the heater that took literally 7.5 full working days to do?

Well, given that the wheels couldn't be installed on the car... I suppose brakes weren't needed anyway.

It's just such an odd thought process. "We'll use 355 brakes on the rear, 308 brakes on the front. Damn, these don't fit. We'll use bigger brakes on the front. Wait, now the back brakes aren't working. Seems a 355 engine can't produce vacuum to support 355 brakes. We don't need the brake failure sensing valve anyway. How's RJ coming on that heater?"

I realize that bespoke projects such as this are going to have mods that end up not working as planned, but there comes a point that you drop your original plan and take the damned left turn at Albuquerque.

 

Now you're just being needlessly rude.

 

As a business man myself I see all kinds of things wrong ( in my eyes at least) with the way the invoices were made out. Granted I don’t work in automotive I’m just a lowly landscaper but it’s clear that things were charged for several times. And unless I have a lot of time involved I never ever charge for estimates. It seems to me there should maybe have been a flat rate for looking over the car, as someone with Norwood’s experience should have known what would more then likely been involved after taking a pretty good look at the project. Sure seems like the brake issues should have been better known or at least a cursory look into the 355 system before throwing parts at it and assuming it would work.

I commend the op for taking on this project, and hope there is an acceptable (within reason) outcome and the project is finished safely. I read all the time about projects from all brands that get derailed by builders all the time, one story that comes to mind is the guy that was having an older challenger reworked with a viper engine and interior. He got it done but he certainly will never ever see anything close to what he had invested should he ever sell.

 

Have you read it all?

The car was a pig in the poke from the beginning, and then a clown-punching extravaganza ever since.

Matt

 

Well it's too late now, but if I were Russ I wouldn't have made public point number 4 in his rulesoftheroad.

4. Should I decide to sell the car at some time in the future, refrain from criticizing the car to a potential buyer who may call you to research the car. I know Bob has a low opinion of the competition's bodywork, but I don't want a potential buyer to hear that. Complimentary comments would, of course, be welcome. And of course the mechanicals will all be exemplary.

They way I read that you are restricting the mechanic from rendering his honest opinion on the bodywork. I certainly wouldn't want to buy a car where the mechanic has to lie about it. If a customer asks about it, what is Norwood supposed to say? No comment?

 

Holy ****!

This turns out to be a Buckley thread! ?

I’m here for the gangbang.

 

To quote David Byrne, "Same as it ever was."

 

My apologies, that was the impression I formed when that thread was active and then suddenly disappeared. Again from memory, I recalled that when people asked why the thread was deleted, the answer given was "don't ask, we will not be discussing it further" (and my memory could very well be faulty). Given the threats made by Buckley in that thread, I (and quite a few others) assumed that was how it happened. It's actually good to hear that wasn't the case.

So, what did happen to that thread?

 

I've read every word - of this thread and I think I'm still current on the other Norwood thread. I had some interest because I can remember reading about Norwood in "Road & Track" and all the other car rags when I was supposed to be listening to lectures and having some admiration for the man and his machines. Now I think he's totally lost the plot and I'm disappointed.
As for your responses - meh, if you've no interest, don't like the tone of the narrative, think there's too much wrong with the car for it to have been worth all this aggro - move on by, man. Don't pee in his Cheerios. Also, and more seriously, having that "moderator" tag glowing next to your every post certainly doesn't forbid you to express your personal opinion on this forum - but it may just behoove you to show a bit more restraint perhaps. Held to a higher standard and all that. ;-)

 

Good luck with that!

 

To your point on me being a Mod, my initial reaction was to merge Russ’s new thread (this one) with the other older one where Russ had already been posting. There really was no need for Russ to start a new thread, aside from his wanting to be heard, to be taken seriously. To give him that honor, I didn’t merge the threads.

However, they are certainly redundant. He had indeed already been posting his frustrations on the older thread. But Russ obviously felt special enough to deserve his own thread. As a Mod, I let him. As a person, I think he was trying to whine louder.

Further, and not as a moderator, but as a car guy, I don’t like people who write checks for cars they completely don’t understand, can’t work on themselves, have no plan for completion, and then complain about the situation they’ve arranged.

I spent a couple of hours in 90 degree F / 32 degree C sun yesterday, with my 61 Corvette on axle stands, pulling apart its cooling system to get at the power steering to indentify and correct a major leak. I figured it out, and then took my son on a great drive. He learned a lot about cars in the process.

To be clear: I paid someone to do the install of the modern components for me. So I completely get that. But I very thoroughly searched for the right car to start with, understood the issues I’d be facing, researched the parts I was having a mechanic install, and carefully interviewed and selected the mechanic to do the work. I very intentionally planned his work. Not only that, but I can now fix problems myself afterwards.

Russ did none of that. He was in way over his head from the beginning.

The urine in his Cheerios, as you put it, isn’t mine. Its DNA can be traced back to both Gould and Norwood.

Matt

 

wow....that's big of you.

Why can't anyone start a thread about anything they want? It's a discussion about his experience with his Ferrari, which is what this section's about, right?

and by the way, i agree with stig. Even if you're right about your assertion that he was in way over his head, that doesn't diminish his predicament. In fact, Norwood should probably have told him "this can't work in any reasonable way for any reasonable cost".....so if Russ is naive and lacked knowledge, either due to lack of due diligence or a lack of understanding about the complexities of cars and modifying them, Norwood should have properly advised him, and you have no business talking down to him just because you obviously have a good understanding of these sorts of things.

Talk about judgemental!

 

Im new to the forum and I find it extremely helpful and informative and it seems to be the best Ferrari forum on the net.

I empathise with Russ as I’d have gone about this in exactly the same way, I too take people at face value and trust that they are honourable people. The internet seems to be the perfect place for Russ to vent his frustrations as it seems that he’s gone to an expert for the required job and been taken advantage of, now others can read about this and be wary of doing business with those named.

Is it now the case that people can disrespect each other if they can’t work on a car themselves and judge that they are not worthy of ownership if they can’t strip down an engine?


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

So this is you asserting some sort of imaginary moral superiority over Russ? You've made 2-3 really negative posts about the guy and how his posts should be done here. Anything else you'd like to throw in? His haircut perhaps? Or would you like to preserve a little dignity and show some respect for his right to tell his story his way without any personal criticism?

 

I'm going to throw out a guess that the majority of the regulars on this forum have more money than time. And that's because they pay professionals to do jobs that would prevent them from doing more of their own.

I would never presume to tell someone they shouldn't own something because they can't work on it. Did you build your own house as well? Do you sew your own clothes? Raise your own vegetables?

The bottom line is that professionals should do the job they're being paid to do in the time they stated and for the amount they agreed to. If they can't do that, then they shouldn't take jobs. Sure, things can come up, but this is a mess of monumental proportion and it looks to me like Norwood is simply washing his hands of it because he can't make it work either. This is hardly the first time I've heard a story like this.