2018 Indy Car | Page 17 | FerrariChat

2018 Indy Car

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by BartonWorkman, Oct 26, 2017.

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  1. TeamF1Jr

    TeamF1Jr Formula 3
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    Nov 8, 2003
    2,381
    The story Robin Miller said was at the exact moment before the crash Roger Penske and the spotter were talking and before the spotter could interrupt the damage was done.
     
  2. 'Quite aware, but thanks anyway.
    I was addressing Will admitting he would have left a lane open for Wickens if he had known he was there.
    'Doesn't change who's fault it was on the track, which is what I was responding to Whisky about. ;)
     
  3. Touche' your touche'....

    The stress on the neck was worse, I found, on high speed flat curves than banked ones (the steeper the better) as the g-forces become increasingly vertical (in relation to the track surface) the more banking there is, as opposed to horizontal, as in the case of a flat curve. Of course, I guess physics may have changed on me, but I think not... :)
     
  4. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Feb 11, 2008
    98,537
    Vegas baby
    I agree with this. He didn't see him.
     
  5. PureEuroM3

    PureEuroM3 F1 Veteran
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    Jan 31, 2006
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    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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    Thomas
    It was a rough day up north. Both Wickens and Claman Damelo got taken out by a Veterans mistakes.
     
  6. tervuren

    tervuren Formula 3

    Apr 30, 2006
    2,469
    I find that on banked corners unless I'm in a really really slow car, I'm at the limit, and that that limit is higher.

    Maybe at 100MPH the high banked corner is easier, but at 220MPH the lateral G force is back in play.

    There is a velocity below which you are falling down the banking and have to turn up, there is the neutral velocity, and then the greater you exceed the neutral velocity by the greater will also be the lateral G-force. As there is more grip available the lateral G-force can be higher on the banked turned than the non banked turn.
     
    tifoso2728 likes this.
  7. TeamF1Jr

    TeamF1Jr Formula 3
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    Nov 8, 2003
    2,381
  8. TeamF1Jr

    TeamF1Jr Formula 3
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    Nov 8, 2003
    2,381
    Unlike running the Indy 500 where you could virtually throw a team together literally months prior to the month of May, if you plan on running the full season you need all your ducks in the row in place by fall the year prior. Why would Alonso's manager be in Detroit a year prior to the Indy 500, he didn't do that last year.
     
  9. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    Nov 3, 2003
    6,086
    En El 305
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    Barton Workman
    As the Indy Car drivers learned last year, having a driver with the world wide recognition
    running in you ranks raises everyone's profile.

    I'm sure not only for this reason but for the fact that Alonso seems well liked by other
    drivers, that they're encouraging him to make the move.

    Look at the profile of CART when Emmo, Mansell et.al, made the move over, the series
    literally exploded and rivaled F1 in terms of popularity and prestige.

    BHW
     
  10. I'm so ashamed. :( I lied. :oops: I really don't think physics are constant, I know they are. :cool:

    The direction of forces don't change with differences of speed. ;)

    I will grant, however, that I didn't take into account the duration of the loads, the percentage of each lap, nor the radius of the turns that were involved.... :)
     
  11. tervuren

    tervuren Formula 3

    Apr 30, 2006
    2,469
    Lateral G in a car with neutral aerodynamics and street tires, about 1G.

    On a 25 degree turn, the vertical G will allow for a higher lateral G as there more grip available because the weight to mass ratio on the contact patch has changed .

    Unless your speed is such that you aren't taking advantage of the additional lateral grip available; there will be stronger lateral forces on the banked corner compared to the flat corner.

    This is similar to how a car with aerodynamic downforce can generate more lateral G than one that is neutral or has lift.

    A banked corner, taken at the limit of grip will have more lateral G than a flat corner taken at the limit.

    What you may have experienced is a car going around a banked corner with insufficient horsepower to reach the limit of adhesion for the radius and banking.
     
  12. Whisky

    Whisky Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 27, 2006
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    The original Fernando
    Wickens? It was that Claman guy that was there.
    I saw the very obvious rubber in the main line that everyone was taking,
    Will was in it, Claman didn't respect that.
    I guess you can say 'that's racing' if you want.
     
  13. 'Matters not. The forces still are applied in the same direction, just more so with higher speed..

    Again, I'll refer to my last sentence in post #410.

    Practically speaking, I've been there. ;)
     
  14. Yes. That's racing, not follow the leader. I don't wish to watch a parade. I have all respect for Will, but he was being passed. Isn't that racing? o_O
     
  15. tervuren

    tervuren Formula 3

    Apr 30, 2006
    2,469
    You've been there in a single seat experience drive, a far cry from the full speed of the Indy Car, although it may be very thrilling.

    The difference on the body of being at the limit, and just being fast is quite different.

    As cornering speed mounts, the car can reach peak lateral G(Relative to the plain of the car), and on a banked corner the possible peak lateral G is higher than on a flat turn.

    Like I said, you weren't going fast enough in that car. 170MPH vs 220MPH are not the same ball game for the same corner.
     
    tifoso2728 likes this.
  16. (A) Quite presumptuous of you, no?

    (B) Like I said, physics have not changed.

    (C) Yes they are. The forces are just greater.
     
  17. Whisky

    Whisky Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The original Fernando
    Ordinarily I would agree with you, but not on THAT track, at THOSE speeds, where you have ZERO time to react.
     
  18. Will would not have had to "react" if he was aware that Claman (yeah, I had the rookies mixed up) was there.

    And why did Will leave that line, coming up on Claman, taking them both out? Where was his "respect" for that line?

    Again if you must "respect" the line that "everyone" is taking, what's the sense of racing???
     
  19. tervuren

    tervuren Formula 3

    Apr 30, 2006
    2,469
    When you first started posting here you mentioned your experience at

    You have speelled out your ov'uh experience to ussins 'bout two years ago.

    Like I said, neutral speed for a banking angle and radius, and above or below that there are lateral forces required to maintain the line.

    An Indy car is not comparable to a thrill run in a non competitive arca car when it comes to a banked corner. Significant differences in drag, power, and speed.

    The physics remain the same, but the G-force exerted to cut that same radius at a higher speed is increasing. If neutral is about 100MPH, then 170MPH is 70% more than neutral, 200MPH is 100% more than neutral, 220MPH is 220% more than neutral. Do you see it now? That Indy car is not just pulling vertical G's unless the corner banking is ideal to the speed. The Indy car is far in advance of the neutral speed.
     
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  20. tifoso2728

    tifoso2728 F1 Veteran
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    Apr 30, 2014
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    Exactly. That's why Texas sucks for IndyCar. It's an expensive crash fest for the owners with very little attendance. Seriously, why do they return there? That question has been asked for over a decade.
     
  21. thirteendog

    thirteendog Formula 3

    Mar 6, 2008
    1,587
    Nashville, TN
    Anyone joining me at Road America?
     
  22. Yes, I did mention an oval experience...it wasn't a "thrill ride", it was a test session. Irrelevant. ;)

    I weren't talkin' spefic'ly ovals re: the difference in the stress on the body on a flat vs. banked surface.

    I've seen it all along. (btw, you're numbers are wrong as the increase in forces with increased speed is not linear, but we shan't even go there)

    Nonetheless...I think we agree that as one rounds a corner/turn/bend the force on any mass is lateral (parallel to the earth/pretty much right angle to gravity). My contention all along has been that as the angle of the banking rises, so lessens the strain on the neck as one's arse is becoming closer and closer to being beneath one's head (maybe spine compression but that's another subject...) in relation to said lateral force thus saving one's muskels (Popeye of course :)) from having to keep one's head upright and in the car ('won't even mention tethers). Again, this not taking those other three factors into account for specific cases.

    Also, my contention...nay, personal preference...while approaching a given radius, high speed turn/bend is to be looking at a wall (exaggeration, of course) of banked pavement (let's say Texas) rather than air (let's say Indy); especially if there is a solid wall (literal) containing the "corner" (no runoff, both T & I).
    This brings me back to my initial question of which was more dangerous. I stand by Indy. I, in any car, at any speed, would rather do Texas flat out and be alert (re: traffic) than Indy flat out... :cool:

    "That's all I have to say about that." :)
     
  23. WEC co
    WEC or F1 coming to town?.....even IMSA maybe??? :D



    Oh, those guys.... :(
     
  24. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 World Champ

    Oct 2, 2011
    11,120
    Under a bonnet
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    Panzer
    Will you be supplying the brats and beer? :p
     
  25. thirteendog

    thirteendog Formula 3

    Mar 6, 2008
    1,587
    Nashville, TN
    Lol I’ll buy you a beer if you show up. Southern hospitality kind of insists on it.
     

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