Excess fuel in cat converter | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Excess fuel in cat converter

Discussion in '348/355' started by yelcab, May 21, 2018.

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  1. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    #51 johnk..., Jun 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
    Why no O2 sensor code? Inaccuracy, if that is the case, doesn't necessarily imply failure. If the heater is ok and the signal is within range the ECU will think it is ok. But either way, real or imagined, the ECU thinks there is too much oxygen in the exhaust, and increasing the length of the injector pulse to compensate. Apparently that is reducing the O2 level in the exhaust (since it settled on a specific LTFT) but also leaving a lot of unburnt fuel there too. The O2 sensor doesn't know squat about unburnt HCs. So yes, you are correct. One possibility is a bad or clogged injector. Or maybe it's a problem with gold connectors on tin pins. :) (The devil made me do it, FBB)
     
  2. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    What I can do next is to swap all the injectors from one side to the other side … after the O2 sensor
     
  3. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Bet those mr injector o rigs at the injectors are wolfed
     
  4. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    One change at a time. Try swap 02s since easy. No change then swap injectors. Tim has a point that is possible.
     
  5. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    I would not be swapping sides. Why mess with the 5-8 bank since it seems to be ok. Pull the plugs on 1-4 and look for something obvious. If nothing, replace the 1-4 O2 sensor and see if LTFT comes down. If not pull the injectors and have them tested. If they check out ok then you may have an intake leak on one cylinder or a cracked header. Worst case could be burnt exhaust valves.

    What's the history of the car?
     
  6. spider348

    spider348 Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
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    Based on my limited experience. Had the same problem/symptoms. In my case the root cause was intermittent #7 spark plug wire failure. All wires resistance checked fine when not under stress. When compressed in cavity random failure. Replaced with a set of Kingsborne(SP?) wires. No further issues.
     
  7. schnazzy

    schnazzy Formula Junior

    Mar 31, 2008
    494
    Seattle
    I had the same problem. It was the connectors to the ECU and to the ignition coil. Unplugged, cleaned, removed oxidation, adjusted the female pieces (tighter fit), dielectric grease.... job done. That is probably not the issue you are having but that is what fixed mine.
     
  8. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    OK, wrapped it up today. Summary of what has been done:

    1. Checked intake leaks, none found
    2. Checked exhaust leaks, none fount
    3. Checked cat converter for clogs, none found, it is in good shape
    4. Checked spark plugs, all clean
    5. Replaced O2 sensor, front, right bank.
    6. Replaced all spark plug wires
    7. Inspect coil and found that bank one connector is full of corrosion even though the pins are still tight. Cleaned the coil pins, replaced the connector wiring pins.
    8. For good measure, did the same cleaning and pin replacement on bank 2, the one without the problem.

    9. Reset computer, relearned idle parameters, and drove it today. No issues so far. Guardedly optimistic that it is gone.

    I did find that the long term fuel trim value is the same after power down reset of the computer so... what will clear that long term fuel trim value? Reset via the OBD2 signals?

    On a separate topic, I was having the similar engine code issue on the 348 challenge (OBD1) and also found the MAF to be dirty, as well as the MAF connector pins to be corroded. So, this is really common.
     
  9. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 18, 2008
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    I have same question
    Hiw to,reset LTFT
     
  10. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    I understand they change over a long period of time but never seen mine change much at all over years LOL Sticking to my orig comment, these ecu suck the big one both the 2.7 and 5.2 :)

    Possibly a sd2-3 reset
     
  11. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    LTFT will come down by itself. From my understanding you need factory software (or equivalent) to reset its value in the ECU. I had a problem with my 2002 Toyota truck. The MAF hot wire became shielded from the flow so it was reporting much higher air flow than actually. LTFT went to max and cause a cell. Once the MAF was cleared the LTFT returned to normal pretty quickly. I mean I could watch it dropping in real time as I drove around. But I have to say, I echo FBB's words, "one thing at a time." I hope the problem is corrected, but with the list of things you changed you really don't know what the problem was, if it is corrected.

    But wait. In response to FBB commenting about time for the GCK:
    you replied:
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/excess-fuel-in-cat-converter.576429/page-2#post-146033087
    And now you are saying:
    So do we have the 1st documented case of gold on tin corrosion? No way to delay that troubles coming everyday.
     
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  12. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks for the update Mitch. Hope you killed the gremlin.
     
  13. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    No those pins are not changed to gold
     
  14. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nope. That is yet to be confirmed and I think there was some rain involved and Ferraris just can't handle rain. I have gold on tin well over 5 years old and it works better than OEM Ferrari. Yes I know about the bad mojo of gold on tin. The science on this is sound but does not make gold on tin pins bad in a ferrari because the Ferrari system is so bad that the bad gold/tin pin is actually good.

    ***********But If you like tin on tin you can keep tin on tin. If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor. Obama made that so.*********

    Here is why it is perfectly fine to go gold on tin on your ferrari
    1) proven to work for many years better than oem tin on tin. I have not had a connector to connector failure in 5+ years. Yes the science is bad but the results are good.
    2) If you get fretting corrosion it is on the tin male pin. The tin male is easier to clean than the female pin if tin on tin. when gold female on tin you only have to clean the tin side...easy.
    3) female gold pin fixes faulty wiring harness tin pin. It will mate to the engine's disposable engine sensor. Hey if you have a failed engine sensor with tin on tin you replace the sensor. If you have a failed sensor gold on tin you replace the sensor. Those are equivalent actions. The sensor will fail long before the pin gets eaten.
    4) gold does not corrode. Corrosion will be on the tin side. So clean it. When connections are bad tin on tin what do we do? Clean it! Those are equivalent actions. We have to do that often tin on tin but so far never gold on tin.
    5) we know gold works better on these low voltage ECU's a science thing...
    6) If you do gold on the motronic connector can anyone tell me how many decades it would take to eat the tin pin? Guess what we open the motronics to rechip them. We can also replace the mating ECU male pins so that is no big deal either.
    7) does anyone know if the Motronic or the engine sensors are tin male pins? Maybe they are nickel palladium and then that would make gold to nickel P just fine. We have no idea what those male sensor pins are. They are silver color so we are guessing tin. We could be wrong unless someone has some docs that sya those pins are tin. Maybe we are getting such fantastic results because those pins aren't tin?
    8) We replaced the pins and clean the harness ends when doing the GCK. If the pin gold or tin cause a problem we replace it so Big deal! If the gold has lasted me 5+ years already and if the apocalypse happens you and DaveRocks have talked about comes in a decade I will have had 10 years of pain free living. None of my 6 ferraris in stock tin on tin form were ever good electrically. GCK is the single biggest improvement in overall Ferrari reliability. I'll take my chances on gold and have done so.
    9) There are many Ferraris from Scuderia Rampante quietly running around on gold pins. We are all driving very reliable Ferraris.

    Math and science are absolutes in the classroom. Real life changes things because there are elements that are not factored in. That's why I am at odds with so many of you on Cam Timing too. The Tacoma narrows bridge collapse was the failure of perfect engineering.
     
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  15. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    LOL It's not WHERE the corrosion occurs, it's WHY it occurs. It is about the real world. G+T+W (W=water) will corrode much faster that T+T+W. It's the same reason boats have sacrificial anodes. So the gold on tin does nothing but create a bunch of sacrificial anodes all through you electrical system. You are tempting fate. If your ok with that, fine. Our disagreement about cam timing is not the same thing. That is an argument about accuracy and what dimensions do or do not change when you change belts. As I have said, I have not problem with those who feel it is necessary to check timing after a belt swap. But it is cleaver that we have now been able to start with excess fuel in cat and come complete circle through the GCT and cam timing/belt swaps. Good old Ferrari Chat, never fails to amuse. You wanted trouble and with the GCK you got it. :)
     
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  16. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    For completeness, for OBD II cars, 96+

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    This really isn't for learning idle parameters like OBD I cars, it is for resetting the monitors.
     
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  17. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    #67 Dave rocks, Jun 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
    Nonsense. I've driven mine several times in massive down pours. The car is fine.

    Turns out they don't do so bad in the snow either :)

     
  18. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    You can drive it in the rain, you cannot park it in the rain for days.
     
  19. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Don't turn this into a gold pin debate !
     
  20. Nader

    Nader Formula Junior

    Feb 12, 2011
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    I don't think that anyone would debate that the true benefit of any new pin kit, no matter the material, is the improved fit and interface rather than the conductivity of the plating.
     
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  21. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Bingo.
     
  22. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    Finding a place in LA where you can follow instruction #2 is near impossible! There needs to be a special instruction for that!
     
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  23. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    5 am by Los Alamitos AFB. I get all the lights sunday morning
     
  24. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    It's just a drive cycle to get the monitors to come on line quickly. All OBD II cars have them. If you don't follow it, just drive the car a few times the monitors will reset typically within 100 miles of normal back and forth driving.
     
  25. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    When its a customers car and his dumb ass is 60 days past smog deadline you have to just put some sand in the Vaseline and ram it through for them :)

    SoCal CARB to the rescue
     

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