Mondial 8 weird start issue -- relay related

PS: also a symptom is that sometimes when I accelerate the engine (with or without load), when the RPM comes down on its own, it goes so slow it stalls. Sometimes, it "pauses" around 2k then slowly comes back down to idle. This second behavior is typical. So what does it mean when it does not happen....TDC/tach sensor failure? something else?

 

Just measured WUR control pressure when warm...is 70 psi.... guess it is clogged too! And that causes a mixture that is too rich!


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Thanks all for your help! Here is an update:

1. not quite working yet....
2. I had the fuel distributor and WUR rebuilt; they seem good now
3. control pressure to WUR is around 45 PSI when warm but it raises after 5-10 minutes because crud builds up on entry to WUR; I can easily clean and then pressure is back where it should be; I know FD is clean, and fuel filter is new, so it must be crud in the line from fuel filter to FD and that despite my cleaning efforts is still there. The FD should have a small filter at entry to it from the fuel line but its disintegrated in mine (= gone) and rebuilders tell me they cannot find that filter.
4. I was thinking of adding a small new additional fuel filter RIGHT before the FD; any one know the size of the fuel line from the fuel pump?
5. Also, now that all systems are rebuilt, I think the air-fuel mixture is wrong because the motor did not act right; I have tried to adjust using my ears and nose so to speak but I could not do it well; anyone know of a trick to get that more or less into range? I have to play with the air-fuel mixture screw right next to FD, idle screw by plenum, and auxiliary air bypass by plenum.

D.

 

I did clean the FD, maybe should do again. If I want to change it, do you know the compression end sizes?

Thanks for the mixture adjustment routine! I suppose you mean have some keep RPMs at 3k, and then adjust as you say?

I also found this at cisflowtech.com:

After assembly of the fuel system, run the fuel pump and depress the air flow sensor plate for a couple of seconds to bleed air out of the fuel distributor. Remove one injector line from the top of the fuel distributor, and while looking into the injector port in the top of the fuel distributor turn the mixture adjustment screw clockwise until the port just starts to fill with fuel then turn the mixture screw 1/2 turn counter clockwise. Reinstall the injector line, start the engine and adjust mixture when it reaches operating temperature.


thoughts?

 

All, thanks for help! Turns out my fuel tank was too
dirty despite my prior simple cleaning...is clogged up filters and reduced system pressure; now after a comprehensive cleaning with an auxiliary pump, lots of water, lacquer thinner, and time, it seems good; for the first time ever system and control fuel pressures seem to stay ok!!! Mixture setting is out of whack; I think I adjusted it correctly, but could be wrong; when driving power is very low and doesn’t feel right; when I go downhill and Gravity accelerates the car, it turns off (or maybe just not enough Gas in tank?)...any more pointers to adjust mixture? Somebody with experience in Midwest US?


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All, update:

VERY LOW POWER ENGINE, HELP!

I did this: "After assembly of the fuel system, run the fuel pump and depress the air flow sensor plate for a couple of seconds to bleed air out of the fuel distributor. Remove one injector line from the top of the fuel distributor, and while looking into the injector port in the top of the fuel distributor turn the mixture adjustment screw clockwise until the port just starts to fill with fuel then turn the mixture screw 1/2 turn counter clockwise. Reinstall the injector line, start the engine and adjust mixture when it reaches operating temperature." from CIS/Flowtech guidelines.

Then start car and warm it up.

Then when running if I adjust mixture screw about 1/4 to 1/2 turn more (CW, rich) it seems unhappy and wants to stall (at idle). Similarly, if I turn about 1/4 to 1/2 turn less (CCW, lean) it wants to stall (at idle), so I think I am more or less in the middle mixture setting. But I am not 100% confident on this.

I also did this with the bypass valve (big knob) shut.

Then I adjust idle to 600-700 then use bypass valve to get around 1000-1100.

I think this is all correct, modulo small errors.

In the meantime, my fuel pressure is FINALLY correct the whole time: system pressure near 80 PSI and control pressure 45-48 PSI.

Engine starts easy when cold or hot, I think.

HOWEVER: there is no power. I have gone for spins around the block and it simply has no power, and few times stalled (but restarts after 1-2 cranking attempts). I can even tell just going up and down my driveway with a mild incline. What is it?????

Some observations:

1. the tachometer goes crazy every once in a while (quickly oscillates +/- several thousand RPM, but of course engine is steady). I visually inspected the 3 speed sensors on the engine, and I think I tested the ohms of the RPM sensor and it seems ok (not sure anymore, so many things...).
2. the idle is sometimes lower then it should be (like down to 300 RPM)
3. I checked that both banks are working by disconnecting one entire bank on purpose (from the coil); when only a single bank running it is even weaker and cannot accelerate engine (did not try driving).
4. Sometimes the brake pedal (when at low RPM) goes hard, like if no vacuum assist? Is this related? just slow engine?

Can it be a timing issue because the RPM/TDC sensors are bad? Would that cause this issue?


Suggestions?

 

Success!!!!! At last!!!!!!!

Following spicedriver, I inspected my new injectors...I took them all out and cleaned them with carburator spray and compressed air...remember my fuel tank was terrible, so they had some bits of varnish in them, even though they were new...now fuel tanks thoroughly cleaned and everything after is new/cleaned/replaced...

At last power and glimpse of potential fun driving!

I drove a bit around town but did not press the accelerator too hard yet...it would stall when I only had a few gallons in the tank, now have 8-10 gallons and stalling issue is gone...

For the first time, I spent most of car-time today doing something more fun like washing, polishing, waxing, and cleaning the interior, make trim black again, etc... looks like new now!

*** Of course something new has to appear, now the oil pressure light just barely comes on when at idle (low pressure), but when I accelerate it goes back up into the normal range 70-80ish PSI as per the instruction manual; at first I checked oil and put some more in...its hard to read the amount of oil with the odd dipstick it has...I think oil is plenty (and new; recently changed). Tomorrow I will observe some more...not sure what to do...manual indicates oil pressure can be regulated with a valve...no clue if its easy to or not.

Tachometer is still a bit crazy every once in a while, but oh well...

For now, I want to drive...

Not done, but significantly farther at least!!! Thanks spicedriver and Guido and others!!!!

 

All: here are some pics! Btw, oil when cold is 80psi; when driving cold or warm stays around there; when quite warm at idle goes down to 45 or so as per indicator and light just barely flickers on; slight rpm increase and all good; not sure of issue; will have my mechanic check with an external gauge in place of oil pressure sending unit.... Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login


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Oil checked out good; basically pressure is a bit too low when at low idle (500), hot weather, hot engine.... goes to like 35, but that's ok. At 1000 RPM hovers 40-45 but after a hard drive, touches 35 (when light comes on). Mechanic tells me behavior is fine. Maybe can put 10-60 oil for hot weather and hot driving...

Breaks are great!

Sound is great!

Next are minor things: tachometer, need new muffler (maybe will do cat delete) -- both are 36 years old. Thinking simple custom exhaust with something like Flowmaster or Magnaflow dual muffler...dont need or want to spend much...

I am eyeing electronic ignition (Electromotive), full EFI conversion, or just keeping it stock....

I take my other car to the track everyonce in a while...I want to take this one too every once in a while. Fun stuff!

Thanks all!