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Engine block material?

Discussion in '308/328' started by Pero, Jun 28, 2018.

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  1. Pero

    Pero Formula Junior
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    #1 Pero, Jun 28, 2018
    A short question. The engine block is cast aluminium, but does it also contain magnesium? Or any other metal added? You would not really weld if it contains magnesium, but otherwise it would be possible I guess. Anyone welded the block?
    Ferraris do have engine fires but I can't remeber that the block itself cought fire. Or? Didn't old VW engines burn like. .... due to magnesium content.

    Just curious.

    /Peter
     
  2. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

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    #2 kcabpilot, Jun 28, 2018
    I think VW's burned like crazy because it was an air cooled engine at the back of the car with a carburetor sitting on top of it. I have seen a number of roadside car fires in my days and probably 2/3 of them were Volkswagens. As for magnesium content I don't know. I had to replace the magnesium accessory case on my aircraft engine once due to corrosion in the oil pump housing with one that was pure aluminum and the weight difference between the two was astounding. Having just pulled the lump out of my 308 I can say, it ain't exactly light, something like 800 lbs.

    Also on welding, I could have had my accessory case repaired but it cost just as much as a new one and I did have a weld repair done on one of the Chromodoras on my Alfa years ago so it can be done by the right people.
     
  3. ferrariowner

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    #3 ferrariowner, Jun 28, 2018
    I think the Ferrari blocks are cast aluminium. No magnesium. The reason VW's burned so intensely was due to the use of magnesium blocks. When they caught fire the local FD's would inevitably spray them with water, which really causes magnesium to burn hotter.
    KC-I don't recall any magnesium parts on my plane- what type do you have?
     
  4. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

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    #4 kcabpilot, Jun 28, 2018
    Ron, The accessory case on the old Continental C-85 for my 1946 Luscombe was magnesium, it’s the rear section where the magnetos, starter and generator mount and also has an integral oil pump housing. The new replacements are aluminum.
     
  5. ferrariowner

    ferrariowner Formula 3

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    #5 ferrariowner, Jun 28, 2018
    Paul, I have a friend at the airport with a Luscombe. Very nice flying airplane.I didn't realize some of them had magnesium accessory housings. I have an Archer 2
    Fly safe.
     
  6. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #6 Newman, Jun 29, 2018
    I have heard the term Silumin which meant high silicone content in the aluminum.
     
  7. Pero

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    #7 Pero, Jun 30, 2018
    That is killing statistics, but more of a fuel fire. I had one of those, smelled fuel but it survived until it met the scrap yard.
    Peter
     
  8. Pero

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    #8 Pero, Jun 30, 2018
    This is what I vaguely remember, the block itself burnt intensively.
    Peter
     
  9. Pero

    Pero Formula Junior
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    #9 Pero, Jun 30, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2018
    That is the word I was looking for, sialuminium cast. No magnesium. Perhaps it was more of making soft aluminium harder, easier to work with. Not primarely lighter in that case.
    Peter
     
  10. Albert-LP

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    #10 Albert-LP, Jun 30, 2018
    Silumin means Alluminio with some Silicio on it. Magnesio (Magnesium) is very very low (<1%).

    308 block was made with an Aluminum alloy, not with a Magnesium alloy

    Ciao
     
  11. Pero

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    #11 Pero, Jul 2, 2018

    I checked what how different metal additives change the properties of pure aluminium. This is an old source and not discussing alloys for engines but I guess the basics should still be valid. The variety of properties you can get by combining different metals to aluminium is huge.

    "Pure aluminium is soft, has low strength and is difficult to cast. The most common additives are Si, Mg and Cu. Also Fe, Zn and other metals can be used such as Ti. To achieve certain properties, combinations are common between Si and other metals, such as Al-Si-Mg, Al-si-CU, Al-Si-Cu-Mg, Al-Cu-Ti-Mg. Si, normally 6-12%, lower the melting point, improve fluid properties (lower the viscosity I guess so the melt will reach all points), increase strength. Makes it more brittle.
    Cu increase strength and makes the alloy harder. More brittle, lower heat conductivity and is more corrosive. Mg makes it harder and increase strength. Improves corrosion properties. More brittle. If added to an Si alloy the content of Mg is typically 0,3-0,5%"

    Stil curious,
    /Peter
     

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