Considering my first Ferrari | FerrariChat

Considering my first Ferrari

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by JCap, Jul 2, 2018.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. JCap

    JCap Rookie

    Apr 26, 2018
    46
    Tampa, FL
    Full Name:
    Jeffery Capezzuti
    Hello to the group,

    I am currently contemplating trading in my Porsche 911 for my first ever Ferrari. Specifically I seem to be gravitating towards a 348, but am also tempted by a 308 or 328. These models primarily stick out to me as the ones I used to lust after as a kid and are also within my budgeted price range.

    With that said, could someone please explain the vast price differences that I'm seeing on 348's? I am seeing cars with asking prices from $49K to $250K! I get the basics of mileage etc.... but some of these cars seem so similar in condition and maintenance schedules that the price discrepancies just don't make sense?

    Also would anyone have any specific advice about either of these V8 models?

    Thank you very much!
     
    paulchua likes this.
  2. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    12,282
    South East
    Full Name:
    Jimmie
    Welcome

    Head down to the specific model sections here and read about others' experiences of researching and buying
     
    JCap likes this.
  3. syata

    syata Formula Junior

    Feb 23, 2017
    421
    Hi,

    I can't say on the price differences but basically after the 328 the engine orientation changed from inline to transverse. With the transvers, newer engine design, you need to drop the engine for services, like belt changes, etc.

    The newer engines have more HP, but to today's new cars they are slower, like the new muscle cars. So don't expect to keep up with newer cars.

    The 308s started as carbureted engines, then went over fuel injected... again, with time the 308s received more HP too.

    I am not sure what year your 911 is, but until 1988 or so (I think) the 328 were all non-ABS. To my knowledge no power steering. The older 328 and 308s were not built for comfort, hence no power steering and ABS.

    Parts should be generally available, though some parts are NLA and quite expensive to source if it is NLA.

    Best to do is look up the different models you are interested in and test drive them to see which you like better.
     
    Viperjoe, paulchua and JCap like this.
  4. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    15,983
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    Welcome!

    Glad to see you have seen the light and are getting a real car. (j/k - I actually think 911s are the best cars on earth objectively, but I digress)

    3x8s are great choices. The 308/328 should be (all other things being equal) easier on the wallet for maintenance. They are all 'slow' cars when compared to today's vehicles, so I'm never that too picky when comparing the motoring bonafides of between them. When getting one of these 20th-century vehicles, you really are buying the subjective components that modern cars lack.

    As to your main question on the variability of cost, it comes down to these 3 things; 1) Limited Editions, 2) Condition, 3) Provenance. I have not seen a 250K 348, perhaps it is a museum piece 348 challenge that has 50 miles and has been lovingly maintained by a museum or collector?

    Many excellent driver 348s I have seen are in the high 40-low 50 range. Also, may I inquire why the venerable 355 is also not on the list? It is definitely in the same price bracket as the other 3x8s.

    Look forward to chatting more.

    Kind regards.
     
  5. JCap

    JCap Rookie

    Apr 26, 2018
    46
    Tampa, FL
    Full Name:
    Jeffery Capezzuti
    Hi - Thanks for the responses. I really left the 355 off the list because they still seem to be priced somewhat higher than the 3x8's; and I've heard they had engine problems. I don't know if that's accurate or not; but I'm trying to figure all of this out. Additionally I want a manual.... 100% no exceptions and there doesn't seem too many gated 355's.

    I am also aware that they aren't as fast as modern cars; but that's not really the point. My '09 C2S is plenty fast and I really like it but; it's just not the same...... nothing in my opinion sounds like, smells like, looks like a Ferrari. I want to hear that exhaust as I barrel down the back roads!
     
    G. Pepper and paulchua like this.
  6. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,687
    Me personally would either get a carbed 308 (smells like a Ferrari....or is that gasoline) or a 328. Not a fan of side strakes.
     
    davemqv likes this.
  7. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    15,983
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    The 355's problems come down to three things:

    1) Valve Guides
    2) Exhaust Header
    3) Engine Out every (3-5 years)

    The valve guides are a 'one and done.' So find one that's been done already, and you don't have to worry about it.
    As for the exhaust headers, I have friends that tell me they are on their 3rd aftermarket one, to folks that said they replaced once, and it's still going strong - so YMMV.

    Can't avoid the engine out on either the 355 or the 348 - so that's a moot point if you are seriously considering a 348.

    If maintenance is higher on your priority list, a well kept 328 is the most cost-effective.

    You are preaching to the choir my friend with it comes to absolute speed. I understand you; we are eye to eye my friend.

    Best wishes and I look forward to hearing what your final decision is!
     
    JCap likes this.
  8. MonsterCro

    MonsterCro Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2014
    586
    Sydney Australia
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Actually when I had to do a belt change on my 348 when I had it everyone said it was an engine out job. I ended up removing the fuel tank and getting in the space to do the belt change
     
    G. Pepper and JCap like this.
  9. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    15,983
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    I had both methods done. Without getting religious or dogmatic, the engine out was my preference. Hard to do valve timing adjustments through the bulkhead/bottom, and other things that are easier and more visiable beyond the 30k with the engine fully out.

    All these things said, you are right. It can be done, though I personally would not recommend that method.
     
    INTMD8 and G. Pepper like this.
  10. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    May 21, 2006
    7,398
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    Ray
    I have no first hand exerpeince with older cars as an owner, but I believe the 348 is generally considered to be one of the worst Ferraris ever made. I think the 328 was well regarded, but as someone else mentioned, it's not built for comfort. I briefly drove an older car (can't remember if it was a 308 or 328) and it was miserable. I've ridden in stuff like 400 and 512BB, etc. and yeah no thanks.

    355 is a fun car. You can drive it every day. It's as easy to drive everyday as a Honda or Toyota. Find one which has headers and a tubi and which has had the belts done. 360 also a fantastic car. I'd recommend gated manual gear box on the 355 or 360 however.

    Ray
     
    JCap likes this.
  11. Mikael-F360

    Mikael-F360 Formula Junior

    Apr 3, 2017
    751
    Finland
    Full Name:
    Mikael E.
    This is quite a spot on comment. The older models are not for a person who likes comfort and things to be easy.

    A 360 manual is an awesome car, although I am biased. B6t as the OP mentioned before, it (along with 355) is out of his budget range.
     
  12. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 19, 2004
    9,065
    SF
    328's are great cars! Here's a very nice one on this site for what seems to be an excellent price. Certainly worth checking out. (I have no affliation with the seller.)

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/reduced-81-000-1987-328-gts-black-tan-14-300-mi-mint.577994

    Personally I never cared for the look of the 348 since they first came out.


    As always, service history is key and varies so much from car to car, not to mention mileage. Some of the cars are passed around a lot. That usually leads to a lot of deferred maintenance. Get a PPI and use this site as much as you can.

    Good luck in your search.
     
    paulchua likes this.
  13. JCap

    JCap Rookie

    Apr 26, 2018
    46
    Tampa, FL
    Full Name:
    Jeffery Capezzuti
    Thanks everyone for all of your feedback. I think the first step for me is to start driving a few different models and really deciding which one I want. It’s just difficult trying to find different cars locally in the Tampa Bay area.
     
  14. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    The $250K was for the 348 GT Competizione, which is absolutely the best of the breed, and only 50 were built. Other really high priced examples are probably the Challenge cars. Afterward, the wide range of prices are based on whims and/or condition. ;) Then you have to consider the various models. In other words, the very rare Spiders would be most expensive then, say, a '90 ts. But I'm sure you know this already. If not, lots of info here on FerrariChat, and these might help.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_348

    http://www.my348.com/

    Oh, and coming from a 911, the 308 and 328 could be a disappointment. But then, no real sports car roads anywhere near Tampa. :(

     
    JCap likes this.
  15. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 15, 2012
    33,723
    Texas/Colorado
    Full Name:
    George Pepper
    You should drive a 308 or 328. Not very powerful, and steering is a chore at parking lot speeds. I enjoy my 308, but the performance doesn't thrill me, so I got a 360 manual. It's civilized and raw at the same time.
     
    JCap likes this.
  16. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2017
    1,741
    North Wiltshire, UK
    Welcome Jeff; and good to hear your thinking of a lovely F car.

    They are all different, with different pros and cons. Looks aside, as that is generally a personal thing, the 308/328/348 are not fast cars by todays standards with respect to speed of the line. Most hot hatches will have them no problems; but that isn't the point is it...!

    As you say, get out there, and at least sit in a few, try and drive them as well, as they will be different, and you want what fits your tastes. The more you look at the more you will start to understand the price differences your original post raised due to condition/provenance etc.

    I think the ones you are looking at are all great cars for different reasons, but have in common the lack of power steering/traction control etc etc, so analogue cars with a manual which is defiantly one of the main reasons I bought my 348. I love driving my 348, its like a large go-kart. I cant talk for a 308 or 328. Personally I don't like the look of the 328s, and would consider a 308 but for the driving position, but each to his own. Don't listen to the "348s" are bad club. Its tosh; and I'm not just saying that as I own one, guy I know who has a 488GTB, 308GT4 race car, 328 and a 348 and says if he had to keep one it would be the 348!!! Lots of threads on it if you want to get into it.

    Advise is:
    - see as many as you can;
    - test drive them to see what "fits";
    - set up a spreadsheet, and list all the cars you can see for sale, listing age/mileage/condition etc, so you can start to build a picture and monitor trends.
    - be patient; it can take time to find the right car;
    - by on condition not mileage; (a higher mileage enthusiasts maintain car with a stack of receipts will be far better to own than a low mileage dealer maintained car. That is if you want trouble free motoring, rather than sitting in the garage looking at it as a piece of art "investment" instead.)
    - ensure a comprehensive service history;
    - ensure there is proof of mileage;
    - get an independent PPI;
    - read all the threads on the links provided above, in the 308/328 and 348/355 section below. Due to the age of the cars, fortunate there probably isn't anything that hasn't been found and fixed already and very kindly posted up.

    and finally,
    - buy one, drive it lots and enjoy. They are all great cars and its a great community!!!
     
    sixcarbs likes this.
  17. JCap

    JCap Rookie

    Apr 26, 2018
    46
    Tampa, FL
    Full Name:
    Jeffery Capezzuti
    Awesome advice everyone! Hopefully I’ll be able to drive a few over the coming weeks / months. I’ve driven a 308, and frankly thought it was magical; but that could have just been the allure at the time. In the meantime I guess I really can’t complain, I’ve still got the 911 to get me from A to B. :)
     
  18. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    15,983
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    The 'worst' Ferrari is all relative. The 348 is my opinion is not the worst Ferrari if one's measuring stick is driving feel and looks.

    I think it's a blast to drive and beautiful.

    The reason why it gets a bad rap comes down to things that need to be viewed within the proper context.

    1) Car and Driver said it was prone to snap oversteer and did not have high-speed stability.

    Both of these were rectified in subsequent models and is a straightforward proposition for any owner to upgrade earlier models.

    2) The 'Cheese-grater' side strakes are said to be worn and tired. The critics say it was backward-looking.

    I disagree here, I love the design - but with all things as subjective as style - go with your own eyes - not others. If you like how it looks, that's all that matters.

    3) The NSX

    As an owner of an NSX - let me say I think I can add some objectivity. The NSX is faster, but both are slow now and the advantage of the NSX is slight in the real world. I think they both look great. The one thing the NSX does have over the 348 is reliability - full concession here. This all said I prefer the driving experience of the 348.

    4) The 355
    The 348 gets overshadowed by it's younger sibling. I personally prefer the 355 - but I also would prefer the 488 Pista. It's a slippery slope. Different cars, but the 355 is from the 'same' mother so-to-speak, so comparisons are legion. That said, the 348 taken on its own a fine car, and many prefer the lower end torque, rawer nature, non-power steering, and the rock-solid Tipo 119/129.

    5) Luca's drag race
    Montezemolo lost face in a street light encounter with a fast-hatch. It made him have a personal animosity toward the car. Not sure on the wisdom of denigrating the car owned by a large cohort of your customer base -- but a favorite anecdote of his he seems to revel in telling.

    That said, any number of Ferrari today would have the same fate. So what? I never race on public roads, I wonder if the hatchback would have a better time around Fiorano Circuit back in 1989.

    Thanks for reading my meanderings.

    Cheers
     
    MalcQV, G. Pepper and itsablurr like this.
  19. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    paulchua likes this.
  20. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

    Oct 18, 2009
    8,178
    Worcester, England
    Full Name:
    Phill J
    To those people say: "I don't like the look of the 348" : So is that supposed to be a reason JCap shouldn't buy one, because you don't like the look of them? :confused:

    Yes the looks of the 348 tends to divide people, in a love it or hate it way, but JCap has said he likes the looks of them, so it shouldn't matter if others don't like the look of them.

    As for those knocking the 348: How many have actually owned one?, or even driven one for more than a quick test drive? (if that!)

    The handling issues reported with the 348 "back in the day" came about when the car was driven right at the limit, at speeds that were were only really suitable on race tracks. At on normal roads, even when the car is driven in an enthusiastic manner, above the speed limits, the car is perfectly safe, and will not want to swap ends at a moments notice (take serious/stupid liberties with the car though and yes, it can bite back. just like any other supercar of the day).

    Very, very few 348's get driven at anything like those speeds, and in that sort of extreme manner any more, so it really is a bit of a non issue.

    As for not being that quick any more: 0~62mph in @ 5.6 seconds is not exactly slow, even by today's standards. Yes there are plenty of modern cars that can outrun them today - so what? A Ferrari 348 will easily out run the various Jaguar E-types - So does that mean no one should buy an E-type any more?

    My summary would be:

    The 308/328 GTB/GTS series is an absolutely gorgeous looking car, with perfect proportions, and for many (myself included), it's an iconic Ferrari and a dream car. Corrosion can be an issue, especially with cars in damp/wet/humid environments, the interior can feel a bit cramped for those of a larger/taller size, and performance-wise, even quite mundane cars from @ 15 years ago can out run it. BUT........ Every trip in it will feel special, and you simply won't care if newer cars are quicker, because you will be enjoying not just a drive, but an occasion.

    The 348 series is very much an 1980's "looking to the future" design, that divides opinion into "love it" and "hate it" camps (personally I love it!). Corrosion is less of an issue than with the 308/328 series, but being Italian, they can still rust. The interior is more spacious that a 308/328 GTB/GTS, and the seats are remarkably supportive. They are however, the first Ferrari to suffer from the sticky plastics interior, which if you decide to sort out yourself, can be an absolute pain in the arse - Especially the air vents! (ask me how I know! ;)). As mentioned already, performance-wise, the 348 is still a pretty quick car, and the unassisted steering, whilst heavy at parking speeds, is absolutely superb once on the move, with a direct feel that responds instantly to any movement of the steering wheel, and gives great feed back from the road - as others have posted, the 348 feels like a big go-cart.

    The 355 is the 348 turned up to 11. Styling-wise, Ferrari realised the future wasn't as sharp edged as was previously thought, and so rounded the edges of the 348 and went back to more classic Ferrari design traits, such as the uncovered side intakes, and the four round tail-lights. The chassis was re-worked to make it more user friendly, and less race-car edgy, the performance was improved and made easier to access. Despite what Luca Di Montezemolo might have you believe, the actual build quality of the 355 was not a massive improvement on the 348, in fact, it's pretty much identical, right down to the sticky plastic interior parts. The 355 comes with power assisted steering, which some find great, and others say takes some feel away. The F1 paddle shift came in with the 355, which when driving flat out works pretty well, but a slower speeds can feel a bit harsh, as the system by today's standards, tends to slam the clutch in and out.

    All three models are special in their own way, and all have their pro's and cons. The 308/328 GTB/GTS, and the 355 are both seen by most as being "true" classic Ferrari's , whilst the 348 tends to get a bit over looked, which is a bit unfair, because the 348 is a better car than most people believe it to be, and is genuinely worthy of the badge on it's nose.

    The biggest issue with the 348? - It's a bit to edgy for most drivers, especially at the very limit, and they simply don't have the talent to get the best out of it! ;)
     
    A348W, Dolcevita, paulchua and 2 others like this.
  21. JasonMiller

    JasonMiller F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 16, 2004
    3,615
    Co Springs/ Texas
    Full Name:
    Jason Miller
    Exactly why I purchased a 308, If I want to drive a honda I will drive my honda. I prefer a raw anti computer experience.
     
  22. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    Oct 9, 2016
    3,434
    SO CAL
    Full Name:
    GINO RUGGIERO
    I love the raw anti computer experience, and the design of the 308/328 , its to bad Ferrari have left its roots so far behind,,I also like the 348 and the Testarossa, 355, I drove a 355, and I was impressed with its mechanical grip, and its really quick as well. I read a review of the 458 by a British journo, a long while back, who said that it was to bad it didnt come with a manual gearbox. I know that these new Ferrari motors, are best matched with an F1 gearbox, Im sure most are now seamless as well. I wonder how they would perform with a manual gearbox . As for that, we know it will not happen in the future, so much has been said in another thread. My next car will be a Gallardo, 08 with a manual box, so one F car and one Lambo , that should about do it for me .
     
    paulchua likes this.
  23. tirekiller

    tirekiller Rookie

    Mar 9, 2010
    14
     
  24. tirekiller

    tirekiller Rookie

    Mar 9, 2010
    14
    My understanding from my mechanic is that a 348 may have more maintenance issues than a 328, and maintenance can get pricey. That said, I think the 328 has a much more iconic look to. Depending on your price point, and looking at some the 328 pricing (overpriced if you ask me), you might want to look at getting into a 360. I have a 360 Modena F1, but you can find manuals as well, and have had very few problems with it, earlier ones has some design flaws, but some of those can actually be resolved with F430 parts, i.e., door lock mechanism, transmission mounts to name a couple, but in general it is a good daily driver, that may be why you don't see too many for sale. Just my 2 cents. Good luck in whatever you decide.
     
  25. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 10, 2007
    6,488
    Lake Villa IL
    Not that I think it will ever happen again but they would perform great. 458 for example has an almost identical power curve to a same year GT3 which was offered with a manual trans.

    The newer engines have a broader powerband than anything before them so no reason they would not work well with a 6 speed manual.
     

Share This Page