#54845 Major(ish) Service | Page 4 | FerrariChat

#54845 Major(ish) Service

Discussion in '308/328' started by thorn, Jun 16, 2018.

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  1. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Veteran

    Jan 15, 2007
    5,257
    Montana
    Full Name:
    Kim
    Did you just recently paint your cam covers? I’m guessing it was already cracked and you just didn’t notice it?

    You’re doing a terrific job! Minor setback.
     
  2. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 7, 2012
    3,322
    Tallahassee, FL
    They were powder coated when I bought it.

    I really don't know what the next step should be.
     
  3. Archer911

    Archer911 Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2016
    907
    New England
    Full Name:
    Tim
    I think I know how you feel. Just as I solve one problem another rears its' hideously ugly head. Sometimes it's good to walk away for a couple of days—just for clarity and sanity.
     
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  4. FrannyB

    FrannyB Formula Junior

    May 20, 2014
    293
    Arvada, CO
    Hmmm... How does it crack? Warp I get, but crack? Does it start at an edge of is it just start and end in the middle there? That is super strange. Superformance should have a Euro replacement and, hopefully it is cheaper than the replacement head we needed. Maybe the US and Euro are the same?

    That super sucks. Since it is cracked, I would pull it and wire brush off the power coating to get a really good look at it. If it is trashed, then I guess you have a new piece of garage wall art. Can you see the crack from the inside?

    If it did crack, then either it was badly warped or the seating surface isn't flat. Can you find a super flat straight edge to check and see if the head is somehow warped? if it is, then a new cove will likely crack as well, but how does it get that off? OR, is there an obstruction below it? Dumb question: does the engine turn over easily? Can't believe a clashing valve would be strong enough to displace the head... There has to be an interfearance just under that location... One of the cam covers?

    Just thoughts...

    Franny
     
  5. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 7, 2012
    3,322
    Tallahassee, FL
    This morning, I had my coffee and tried to shake off the feelings of dread, depression, and utter defeat. I removed the valve cover (thankfully, easy to do) and immediately saw the cause. Under the valve cover, there are several small humps about the size of a dime. One hump contacted the new cap journal stud, and the stud pressure cracked the cover.

    I'd noticed the replacement studs were a couple mm longer than the originals, but believed it was a trivial matter. (Note to self: nothing inside an engine is trivial.) I'm going to take a long look at the new stud; maybe I didn't insert it far enough, or maybe the length is indeed too long. Have to get that resolved, else it will just crack again when I put it back on.

    Anyhow. I've just returned from a promising trip to a machine shop. They are confident they can repair it for far less money than a replacement part. They also referred me to a powder coating shop down the block, who will remove all the old coating to prep for welding. Should have the cover back by Friday or so, with a repair cost of around $150. I don't believe I'll have the cover re-coated at this time, as in fact the covers don't match the red plenum anyway. For now, I'll have mismatch covers, but long-term I'll get all 4 covers either completely stripped back to the OEM finish, or at least coated to match the plenum.

    In the meantime, I'll focus on completing everything else in the timing belt area. I so love interacting with the AC compressor...
     
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  6. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    Aug 7, 2012
    3,322
    Tallahassee, FL
    Addendum: The stud in question that caused the crack is slightly longer, but also needed 3-4 more rotations to insert into the head more deeply.

    So - in the end - amateur error, costly mistake.
     
  7. Milkshaker0007

    Milkshaker0007 Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2012
    428
    Midlands,uk
    Full Name:
    Paul
    Don't let it get you down bud, your only human, we've all done them in our lives.
    It's not dead so still can be made good, at a small cost of course. Just don't tell the wife/partner:) your spending more money on that RED piece of tin " quote from my wife"
    She has no sense of the love a man has towards his Toys :)

    Good luck.
     
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  8. BLACK HORSE

    BLACK HORSE Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2004
    1,937
    California - Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Rob
    Yeah my wife gives me grief too about the red car.... :) Its in the female blood!
     
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  9. FrannyB

    FrannyB Formula Junior

    May 20, 2014
    293
    Arvada, CO
    Not appropriate to be upset with yourself. Now, had you just blown ahead, put a dab of JB Weld on it and said - "let the next owner deal with it", then that is bad. Honest mistakes are just that - honest. Sounds like you have a great solution that won't be too super costly, you'll meet some new folks and have gained lots of new knowledge that will pay dividends down the road. I'm way more impressed with your ability to troubleshoot issues and problems. Awesome work!

    f
     
  10. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 28, 2005
    4,120
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    Full Name:
    Gordon
    Well, not too costly, it could have been much worse... and as a shared learning experience, your fellow DIY 308 owners thank you for taking one for the team! :p
     
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  11. Harry-SZ

    Harry-SZ F1 Rookie

    Thanks for sharing all your pictures and information. We can all learn from this, so very good that you also share those mistakes.
    Keep up the good work!
     
  12. Archer911

    Archer911 Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2016
    907
    New England
    Full Name:
    Tim
    Hopefully the supplier has read this post and will include a cautionary statement when shipping these in the future. That might save at least one person some money, time, and heartache!
     
  13. Saabguy

    Saabguy Formula 3
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    Mar 28, 2012
    1,759
    Shreveport, LA
    I know that feeling. And damn something so trivial too. Thanks for being the teacher on that problem.
     
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  14. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 7, 2012
    3,322
    Tallahassee, FL
    Picked up the stripped cover from the powder coating shop, it's now with the machine shop for full welded repair. I've decided I'm going to have the 4 covers all recoated, a slightly darker wrinkle finish than they are now (currently a bit too pinky orange). I know OEM was silver or whatever, but I do like the extra color. At the very least they'll all be the same color. :p

    Pics of the stripped cover, showing the crack and the divot that the journal stud was contacting. You can see it didn't take much contact and torque to break.

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  15. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    Aug 7, 2012
    3,322
    Tallahassee, FL
    I thought about letting them know before I took a hard look at the install, but afterwards realized that although the new ones are a whiff longer, with proper seating depth they work as you'd hope.

    Conventional wisdom is oil the stud, seat with finger pressure only - instead of a double-nut technique. I guess someone out there has stronger fingers than I do, as that didn't work too well for me. ;)
     
  16. FrannyB

    FrannyB Formula Junior

    May 20, 2014
    293
    Arvada, CO
    Is that line below a continuation of the crack or just a blemish? Wow... They had to cast that blob right there... It has to be really close even with the correct stud height. Maybe the coated cover was a real plus. Sure was easier to spot, huh?

    f
     
  17. Saabguy

    Saabguy Formula 3
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    Mar 28, 2012
    1,759
    Shreveport, LA
    Is there any reason not to grind that blob down? For future folks.
     
  18. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    Aug 7, 2012
    3,322
    Tallahassee, FL
    After thinking on Franny's comment, I'm wondering that too.
     
  19. Jet Lag

    Jet Lag Karting

    Dec 6, 2003
    173
    Seattle
    Full Name:
    Robert Bangs
    "From bad, to worse."
    I just ran accross this thread and read with much interest as you seem to have experienced exactly the same luck with a nut falling into an oil journal as I did a few years ago - thread here. Reading your thread was like re-living my ordeal. I'd like to try to save you from possibly experiencing another visit from Murphy by suggesting that you check the cam belt drive pulley bearings with each major(ish). The inner bearings are treated with oil; the outer bearings have nothing but the grease they left the factory with. Mine just failed, so I'm pulling the engine to repair. If I could turn the clock back, I would be changing the outer bearings every-other belt change (or 10 yrs???) I certainly will from now.

    You're doing a good job! good luck with the rest of your project!!
     
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  20. Saabguy

    Saabguy Formula 3
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    Mar 28, 2012
    1,759
    Shreveport, LA
    Does anyone have a play by play for replacing said cam belt drive pully bearings? Can't seem to find anything with the search, too many "cam" and too many "bearing" threads.

    Thanks!

     
  21. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    Aug 7, 2012
    3,322
    Tallahassee, FL
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  22. Saabguy

    Saabguy Formula 3
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    Mar 28, 2012
    1,759
    Shreveport, LA
  23. Saabguy

    Saabguy Formula 3
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    Mar 28, 2012
    1,759
    Shreveport, LA
    So, after reading through multiple posts I am left with a question, what outer cam drive pulley bearings to use? I have read notes to drill out the cover to use larger, I have read numbers to factory type bearing for a tenth the cost, and for factory bearings.

    What is the current thought on Camshaft Pulley bearings? And part numbers as long as I'm asking.

    Thanks all!
     
  24. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    Aug 7, 2012
    3,322
    Tallahassee, FL
    Finally some new progress. After the weekend, picked up the newly repaired and refinished valve cover. The finish looks great - a bit darker and more red than it used to be. Though it doesn't quite match the plenum, it also didn't before; it's a bit closer now. Long-term plan is to also have the plenum and front valve cover stripped and redone to match.
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    I ground a small bit of the inside weld down, put the cover on and did a quick clearance check with a business card wedged between the journal cap stud and the cover. Pressed hard down on the cover, and removed the card. I could see an indention in the card, which told me that there was likely going to be contact (again) when it was tightened down. A few light passed with a dremel ground off a couple millimeters of the weld. Rechecked with the biz card, and all was well.

    Cover is now installed with new gaskets and proper RTV, along with the endcaps. Sparkplug boots put back in place. Cam covers (also newly powdercoated), water pump pulley and AC compressor are bolted back on.
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    I was debating doing this, but after seeing a nice set of reconditioned steel injectors in the classifieds (thanks again, SeattleM5) I purchased them + new o-rings and installed the rear bank last night. It's not a big deal if you have an injector puller. You do have to unbolt the throttle intake (4 10mm nuts) to get enough clearance to get the injectors out, but I didn't find that it needed to be removed completely. The old injectors are quite sticky, and one o-ring was particularly loose and grimy. So, glad I added that service to the overall resto.

    Today I'll replace injectors in the front bank, get all the accessory belts back on and start refilling the car with new fluids. Hopefully the car will not only start this evening, but also run correctly and not leak. ;)
     
  25. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    Aug 7, 2012
    3,322
    Tallahassee, FL
    Late Tues, I finished putting everything back together. Tensioning accessory belts and compressor installation remain an annoying task, but next time around I'll purchase & use one of those bracket expanders I saw in another recent thread. I managed to get it done with the help of a floor jack, 2x4, crowbar, and some assistance from Archimedes. Tip: when installing the valve covers, reconnect the oil crossover pipe to one of them BEFORE putting them back in the car.

    Just before dinnertime, refilled the car with new fluids (always use new copper crush washers). I noticed the adapter between the dipstick and block seemed loose, so I pulled it off (24mm socket) and cleaned it up. There's also a crush washer down there. Mine was aluminum - (tip: you cannot anneal aluminum), so another trip to the parts store for a copper washer. Note that it's smaller than the other oil and gear washers we commonly replace. Reinstalled and tightened up. One of these days I'm going to cut a 27mm wrench down to about 6" in length, instead of using that damned crescent wrench to turn the dipstick nut.

    Had a rather tasty dinner of venison spaghetti, prepared by the girlfriend. Afterwards, took a deep breath, said a prayer, and turned the key. Wrrr wrrr wrrr nothing. Try again, still no firing. As I've read in a Birdman tutorial, the injectors did indeed need to be primed. I pressed down on the circular plate under the air filter, which primes the lines. Crank car, no start. I repeated the process 2-3 more times, erring on the side of caution - didn't want to flood the car. After the 4th prime or so, the car finally fired up.

    It stumbled for a few seconds, as if trying to catch its breath and remember how to run, but then settled down to a perfect steady 1000-1100 rpm. I let it go for around 10-15 min, checking all the fuel lines for dampness, making sure there was no oil spurting anywhere, etc. Accessory belts showing no visual wobble/over-vibration, no squealing sounds. I shut the car off, placed some fresh paper grocery bags under the car, called it a night.

    Wednesday morning, checked the paper for leaks. Based on the small droplets, was able to determine that the distributor-cams end caps have a slight weep, and are damp on the underside. The good news is that there appears to be no leaking from the camshaft seals/o-rings, nor the oil connection on the rear bank... so I apparently was successful on those repairs. I've retorqued the valve covers and caps, and some fasteners did indeed tighten down. Hoping that stops the drips. If no, I'll pull those 2 endcaps and dress the gaskets with a light bit of RTV. They weren't leaking before, so I know there's a fix.

    Thursday: I'd been hoping to meet this deadline. My uncle Terry - responsible for my lifelong Ferrari obsession (starting in 1976) - arrived from GA for a quick visit, and I was thrilled to not only show him the car, but also give his first ride ever in a Ferrari. I'm not sure which of us enjoyed the drive more. Not a great pic of the car, but one of my favorite pics of the car.

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    45 miles and an hour later, pulled the car back into the garage. Test drive was flawless. Car sounds great, runs well. Oil pressure and temps are now better than before, and oddly the car seems to run slightly cooler at slower speeds.
     
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