Water pump replacement - mandatory or optional for 355 major? | FerrariChat

Water pump replacement - mandatory or optional for 355 major?

Discussion in '348/355' started by krazykarguy, Jul 24, 2018.

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  1. krazykarguy

    krazykarguy Formula Junior

    Apr 17, 2014
    731
    Fort Mill, SC
    Full Name:
    Matt
    Hi all-

    I'm busy gathering a parts list for an upcoming engine out this winter on our '97 355 Spider.

    I am fairly certain that Ricambi's $1600 355 major kit will be our choice for the parts/seals/gaskets, etc, including the HE tensioner bearings.

    In addition to this kit, we'll be doing engine mounts, timing belt hydraulic tensioners (the one on the RH bank is tapping), as well as the alternator tensioner bearing. We will also renew all of the water hoses (those not included with the kit) during the major.

    However, I cannot seem to tell what to do about the water pump. I KNOW that it's more or less mandatory to change it on a Honda Accord with 120k miles getting it's first new timing belt change, "because you're in there".
    But what is the deal with the 348/355?Our particular car shows the the water pump was 'rebuilt' by Foreign Cars Italia in June of 2014 with 35k miles. Our car currently has 41k miles.

    I have searched on here, and found that some folks are re-building them (link to a kit and what's involved??), others replace them. Ricambi has what I assume to be a 'rebuilt' water pump assembly (PN 177561D) for $350, which is 50% the asking price for the one on the 355 parts diagram.

    With it having been rebuilt so recently, do we just leave sleeping dogs to lie?
     
  2. kenneyd

    kenneyd Formula 3

    Sep 30, 2014
    2,004
    NE FL
    Full Name:
    Ken
    I went ahead and bought a bunch of "while your in there" stuff, including the water pump. Glad I did, once i had it apart, i noticed my water pump was "squeaking" when turned by hand. New one is nice and smooth.
    43k miles
     
  3. Drock28

    Drock28 Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2013
    1,430
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Tony
    well it is usually a while youre in there part to change..

    but as you've mentioned yours was rebuilt in June 2014, so its already 4 years old..
    then you'll do major over the winter.. and if don't change it and if next major only in another 4-5years.. that current pump will have 8-9yrs of service..
    in that case probably best to do it.. you don't want to get stuck between majors with a water pump issue on the current unit etc.
     
  4. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,400
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    If it was rebuilt in 2014, I would leave it alone unless it makes noise or leaks.
     
    c7matt, Dave rocks, taz355 and 2 others like this.
  5. ThomasK

    ThomasK Karting

    Dec 8, 2009
    132
    Houston, TX
    i agree with this. 2014 isnt too long ago, if it isnt exhibiting any symptoms of failure i would leave it. Im usually the "just change it" kind of mentality, but in this case i would leave it personally.
    I changed my water pump with the new one from superformance in the UK in 2017. Havent had any leaks yet and a few thousand miles later all's well. i dont have any experience with doing the rebuilds like some have.
     
    Dave rocks likes this.
  6. GTUnit

    GTUnit Karting

    May 25, 2014
    143
    Socal
    Full Name:
    Jack
    If it was done already, and its ran for over 6k miles then its proven itself to be a good part. Leave it alone.
     
    Dave rocks likes this.
  7. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

    Feb 6, 2009
    34,757
    Ontario, Canada
    Full Name:
    Mike
    I too agree with this.
     
  8. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    So, 4 years ago the 21 year old water pump was replaced. Like others have said, I'd leave it (this time anyway).
     
  9. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2013
    776
    Serviced mine 3 times and not changed waterpump. No leaks leave it alone I say.
     
  10. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 18, 2008
    6,007
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
    I am with Mitchell on this I do mine every 2 majors
     
  11. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

    Feb 6, 2009
    34,757
    Ontario, Canada
    Full Name:
    Mike
    How often?
     
  12. krazykarguy

    krazykarguy Formula Junior

    Apr 17, 2014
    731
    Fort Mill, SC
    Full Name:
    Matt
    OK, it seems pretty clear - leave it be.

    Thanks, FChat!
     
  13. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 18, 2008
    6,007
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
    Yes except the new one for cheap has a metal pump versus plastic. Personally i dont like plastic water pumps never had much luck with them.
     
  14. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 14, 2011
    8,630
    SoCal LA/OC/New Mexico
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    Tim Dee
  15. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 18, 2008
    6,007
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
    I do as well.
     
    StuR likes this.
  16. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,613
    socal
    That's a whole other issue. I like what I use in my diesel truck. Zerex G05. It is cummins approved for anticavitation often found in hostile diesel environments
     
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  17. krazykarguy

    krazykarguy Formula Junior

    Apr 17, 2014
    731
    Fort Mill, SC
    Full Name:
    Matt
    Is the cavitation issue that has now been brought up the cause of that corrosion of the pump body, or the symptom?

    I guess I see no harm in removing the pump for inspection, then replacing the sealing ring and reinstalling it if it's found to be OK.
     
    StuR and SoCal1 like this.
  18. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 14, 2011
    8,630
    SoCal LA/OC/New Mexico
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    Tim Dee

    Yes I use the good stuff and change yearly, I run an additive also. Lots folks in the diesels run a sacrificial anode in the system also to suck up that voltage bleed
     
  19. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,613
    socal
    Cavitation can be found in any part of the motor not just the WP. Google cavitation and diesel motors as a primer on cavitation. It is a long known problem with many solutions. The easiest for us is to know that cavitation does exist even in our motors (I have seen ferrari cavitation damage in real life) and that the solution is a properly running motor and a quality compatible coolant changed at regular intervals. Hence my love of Zerex G05.
     
  20. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,613
    socal
    I have never heard of this WP issue before and have been lucky with the few I replace to just bolt them in and get lucky. Another Fchater including the OP was not so lucky and Pluzgit who fixes many of these cars also knows of this problem. I do not know what models are effected. But after reading my new procedure I think will be to use playdough and a caliper to measure the gap of impeller to housing. What sucks is the makers of the WP are NOT paying attention to what ever the factory spec is. Now we have to check their work. Like Plugzit said making a paper gasket might be needed to get the clearance. On the flip side it could also mean that some guys that complain of bad cooling might have too much clearance! That also makes for more pump cavitation. All this is very bad. We need to hunt for or derive the proper impeller to housing distance for optimal pump function. I do not remember reading a spec for that clearance. Off the top of my head, 1 mm seems very reasonable.
     
  21. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 14, 2011
    8,630
    SoCal LA/OC/New Mexico
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    Tim Dee


    LOL yeah plasitgauge our wp now :)
     
  22. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,613
    socal
    Well I got a lot of play dough from my "Dr. Drill N' Fill". I will save you some.
     
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  23. krazykarguy

    krazykarguy Formula Junior

    Apr 17, 2014
    731
    Fort Mill, SC
    Full Name:
    Matt
    Wow, thanks FBB for the lesson in hydro- and thermo-dynamics. It sounds like cavitation will be a higher likelihood on a engine in a race car rather than a street car. Higher RPMS + higher heat increases the chances of coolant vaporizing in the housing and cavitation occurring. I had no idea this was a thing.

    Regardless, I think that the best course of action for us is a remove-inspect-reinstall technique.

    Interestingly, the other recent thread regarding the overheating 355 with the shattered impeller... Who's willing to bet that the impeller-to-housing clearance was too small on that water pump?
     
    SoCal1 likes this.
  24. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 14, 2011
    8,630
    SoCal LA/OC/New Mexico
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    Tim Dee

    Ohhh thats the good stuff very stable

    I'm one of those that inspects clearance on everything
     
  25. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 14, 2011
    8,630
    SoCal LA/OC/New Mexico
    Full Name:
    Tim Dee
    It's way more widespread then you can imagine today. I design and manufacture products for all the big boys to test for cavitaion from generators to off shore race boats. It also rears it's ugly head in machinery.
     

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