Checked out a 928 GTS today

I was technically the third owner, but the second whom I bought it from had never even titled it in his name. He put it in a storage in the midwest for 14 years. His brother was trying to get it running right but bailed on it. Cosmetically it was in very good condition.

After the first $10k in repairs it became the "I told you so..." and never got better.

 

Try a 997 coupe next round'. Everything is better. Even my wife comments how it's a lot like the 928. Don't worry.. even if you bought a top flight example redone by the 928 guys out in Cali.. it STILL would have given you issues. ECU's, Temp sensors, they would have said do a Porken clamp and Porken tensioner, etc. etc. but you STILL would have had issues. After 18 years of reading the 928 section on rennlist... the complexity of the car makes it a pain regardless of the quality when you buy it. And then it will still be worth nothing when you sell it.

I wish I'd gotten into 911's sooner..

 

I am happy to give a few details, I don't wsant to bore everyone so if you need more info feel free to PM.

First I will tell you that while I find all 928 variants beautiful, my view is the S4 is the least attractive of the group and GTS the most imposing and beautiful. The subtle flaring and stance of the GTS has always blown me away, and I believe when performance fades relative to newer cars as it inevitably does, beautiful designs are what make for more complete and satisfying ownership long term.

You asked about behind the wheel differences, but know that the feel of the cars is very similar between the S4 and GTS so the differences will be subtle but observable to most experienced drivers. Cabin comforts all work very well, both are quiet when you want and have attitude when you want to grin.

The Brembo Brakes that started on the 86.5 where a huge improvement. The braking power of the later 928s are amazing even by today's standards. 4 piston calipers increased in size along with the rotor diameter with the GTS, and even with slight added weight of the GTS it brakes the best of all. It makes a difference compared to the S4,and when you combine the prodigious braking power with the near perfect balance of the 928, you can have some real fun with confidence when pushing the car.

thanks to the rear flaring, spacers for wider stance, and more stock rubber on the road with the '17s, there is much more grip in the GTS in turns. However, to me the tuning of the power steering in the GTS loses something to the S4s, it just doesn't feel quite as sharp. but overall, GTS just has more mechanical grip and a less lean with the wider stance.

My cars all had/have Limited Slip Differential, which became the PSD after '90, so both later S4s and all GTSs had PSD. PSD is the best of both worlds for performance and comfort, so especially if you are comparing a non LSD S4 to a PSD GTS, there will be a significant difference when pushing the car on acceleration and through hard corners. LSD S4s more closely give the GTS feel, so to me LSD would be an essential on a pre '90 S4 purchase. It can also be upgraded, unless purity would keep you from changing anything, which is sometimes an owner's priority.

All 928s are known for torque. The HP and Torque jump between the S4 and the GTS is pretty significant. the price of more displacement/power is the GTS motors came out at a time when Porsche was in dire financial straits. GTSs are notorious oil burners, and mine was no exception. It kind of drove me crazy, even though I never smelled or saw tailpipe evidence of it, just when I checked the dipstick. For a 3k/yr car it really is no big deal in the scheme of things, and I don't know why the idea of it always bothered me. Even though this is not a driving impression, I will say that my S4 was the best, most reliable and problem free V8, it just felt bulletproof and mine ended up with over 100k miles and I ran track days with impunity.

My guess is others will have the same experience I did with 928s: buy them with the expectation that you will drive 1k - 3k miles/yr, but you end up driving it more because you will always find an excuse to take it out or for a roadtrip. A good 928 will reward with the more you drive it, ymmv.
Hope that helps,
W


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To Curt's point, always keep in mind these are 25-30 year old cars, a 997 or similar will have much of the same GT feel with way more performance and as much comfort as a 928. You just can't compare old car performance with newer car advances, if that is what you are after.

 

They are not exactly complex, especially when compared to a modern Porsche, but the number of professional mechanics that are trained to service 928's has has been dwindling although the recent uplift in Classic certificated OPC Centres is addressing that.

As much as I loved my 1988 911 Targa, the 928 feels like it's built of granite by comparison. The odd Bosche relay has wimped out but that's about it.
In an ideal world I'd have a different Porsche for each day, Monday to Friday

 

Not exactly nothing, for straight examples at least

http://porsche928prices.simplesite.com

 

Completely cherry picked. An ebay search shows average prices less than $8k.. many less than that if they sell..

 

William,

Thank you for detailed explanation. I had to read it a few times but I think I get the point. I also prefer the flares and the cosmetics difference of the GTS. Not sure if the wheels are wider or they have beefier spacers but the stance is much more masculine than the S4. The oil burning does not bother me. All the 930s I have owned or currently own have had some sort of oil burning or oil leaks. I actually enjoy the smell. Reminds me that I am driving an aircooled Porsche. I have had that smell in my nose for the last 35 years. There is a big price gap between the S4 and the GTS. Regardless, I have favored the GTS a bit over the S4. After your review, I am going for a GTS.

 

This is what I did when I got it:

- Timing belt
- Water pump
- Carl's 928MS "tune up kit" (distributor caps, sparkplugs, etc)
- Rebuild calipers
- new brake master cylinder
- brake booster valve
- complete bleed of brake lines (multiple times)
- rebuilt calipers
- new pads
- machined rotors
- shifter cup joints
- conversion to R134 A/C
- put in a used, but better condition MAF
- stopped the fuse #24/wiring short and beeping, found under the driver's side trunk release
- shop vac'ed out one nest under the manifolds and cleaned out the air intake which was muddy
- K&N filter
- several new fuses
- tighten floppy steering wheel

It went okay for about three weeks. Drove it a couple of times. Then it started leaning out, wouldn't rev in gear past 2k. It drove, but felt like 'limp' mode. Then:

- Heater valve (throttle)
- seals
- throttle switch
- idle control valve
- the 'pre-cat' 02 sensor
- 928 Intl rebuilt MAF
- fuel filter
- fuel screen
- fuel pressure regulator
- fuel pressure dampener
- fuel damper
- new fuel pump
- cleaned and reattached lines
- drained tank
- cleaned fuel rails 2x
- checked Temp II and sensors at block
- multiple ohm reads for wiring on all fuel/ignition and sensor systems, everything checked out fine except certain throttle parts as replaced above
- bought refurb EZK and Jetronic (both of the fuel brain ECUs, the original and the replacement I bought were fine)
- removed and cleaned fuel injectors
- re-checked timing on new timing belt (was fine)
- remove old cats (they thought they might be clogged/crumbled... they were okay)
- replace muffler

Still not running right, but running intermittently. Someone blew out my windshield - I wrote about it here - I think someone used a slingshot while I drove by. Glass all over my face. I put a cover on it and let it sit 6 months.

- replace glass with new windshield
- re-replace fuel filter again, rebleed fuel system, $2k more in random testing

Basically in storage and at two different garages since 2015. The whole time I kept saying I suspected the wiring was chewed, since there was a big mouse nest under the manifolds I cleaned out when I got it. I kept suggesting it was wiring between the ECU and the coil. But I'm not the expert.

 

Poorly maintained dogs and cars with stories are available across all car types.
We pays our money and take our choice

 

FWIW the Factory did a mod for the post '93 GTS which stopped the extra oil burn.
But the fact you enjoy the aroma it's happy days !

I still enjoy the smell of Castrol R at circuits

 

Was the car running when you brought it? That is my bottom line requirement for a project.

 

It was running, with a misfire. I thought a major service with plugs, belts, etc. would do it. My initial hope was put $5k into it, keep it a year or two, and try and sell it for a bit of profit - which I thought a two owner, low miles manual in great cosmetic shape could get.

 

Sounds like you had a bad run with an unlucky car.

One of life's mysteries !

My cousin had a 328 GTS which for some unknown reason the leading specialist garage could never get quite right. Its works folder was about 2 meters thick.

Sometimes a bad egg just appears, and it's chalked up as experience.

 

Yes I would like to try a 997 manual S coupe sometime. Tried a PDK 991 and while it's great I didn't feel like I was interested. Best Porsche I've ever tried was 993TT, and I liked the 993 S too.

I'm actually in this weird phase lately where I'm obsessively reading and browsing cars, and for a year I've been thinking of selling my 355 for something newer, but then I drive them and I'm like "eh, it's *nice*..." Base Gallardo, Panamera, 991, even the Portofino. I liked the Vantage manual, but not better than the 355. Offered a screaming deal on a 430 spider and passed. Nothing has sparked me lately, and when I consider spending the money, I end up walking away. A bit of analysis paralysis. I might just wait until I can get a 458, maybe next spring.

 

I realize we are totally off the thread subject here, glad Ryan brought up his 355. first, I 997S 6 spd is a terrific car, have had some seat time and love it. I have had a hankering for a manual 355 and wondering how you would characterize that driving experience with what some of what we have been discussing. The sound of that cinque valve is intoxicating.

and that list of work you did Ryan, sorry buddy, brutal!

 

If you’re getting a paddle shifter car get the 458. When I add a car to my stable it will be a 458...

I’ve been fantasizing about getting and restoring a 912..

 

That's so funny but true. I've got the 928 GTS and just bought a 458 Spider. Although the latter is another planet car, I still love driving my 928


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I love the back end of the 1980's 928 , I think they are very cool looking cars.. hope to have one in my garage soon

 

Have you tried an early manual Gallardo ? The 'box is quite lovely and engaging.

 

I'd say as an experience it's closer its contemporary the 993: with low-boosted power steering and ABS, it still feels like an analog car. Cable throttle and hydraulic brakes - the computers aren't invasively second-guessing everything you do. Relatively little torque means you have to be winding it out or on cold tires to get into trouble. Steering is nice and direct, transmission has to warm up with the car (my second gear is notchy as hell until warm, I start off going 1 to 3 until the car is up to temp). Once up to temps though the gearbox is great and the revs are easy to keep in match. Going up a curvy road in 2-4th gears is a wonderful experience. It's low and the nose scrapes everywhere. At times I really does feel like a 380hp go kart.

All of those new cars I mentioned feel more electronic. Synthetic. Admittedly, Lotus has the ethos that I am looking for in a brand new sports car, even though I haven't tried one.

When I wrote out recently what I want in a sports car experience, someone posted back "Sounds like a 355." Which it is, largely. Why am I looking? First is that I love having a convertible but the top on the 355 is a PITA. Have to get out, move the super slow seats out of the way, unbutton and fold up the cover, etc. With the Vegas heat, that means that for 4 mos a year it's usually just driven at night. I put a thousand miles per month on it in the winter and want to drive something fun more often. Second is to have a little more power.

Hence I was thinking something 430 or newer to get the easy top, more torque. Maybe even a coupe.

Yeah, and I think that touches the main question: paddles or no? I'm on the fence. If I say yes, then I might try and get a 430 stick. There are two red/tans I know of locally. I think those Singer and other restos are awesome. Pretty much hits what I would be looking for in a Porsche experience.

I haven't, just that E-gear that I didn't enjoy. I suspect that 'the' Gallardo to have is the 550-2 manual, Balboni, or the Performante.

 

Ryan, my Boxster killed the convertible desire in me (almost..) unless its a hard top convertible like the Cali.I found in the Charleston heat and humidity I never used the AC and I put the top down like twice a year, mostly in the fall. Def. consider a coupe..

 

+1
Cool enough design that Steve Jobs bought one.

Good luck with your search

 

I use mine like a Barchetta: I haven't put the top up in about a year. October to May it is wonderful. These past two summers I take it out only once a week, after dark.

 

sold - 928 GTS manual

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/pa19/paris/lots/r0045-1992-porsche-928-gts/733337