348 TB/GTB actual differences - Help to identify car | FerrariChat

348 TB/GTB actual differences - Help to identify car

Discussion in '348/355' started by TheDiffuser, Sep 1, 2018.

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  1. TheDiffuser

    TheDiffuser Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2017
    404
    Full Name:
    The Diffuser
    Hi All

    Wondering of someone can help on this. Ive seen other posts on this and the main dofference is the H engine and raised pleniums.

    Would anybody here be able to list all the differences at all?

    Im looking for a 348 GTB and most cars are online sales. I know about the color coded lower body kit, but are there any other differences I can look for in car sale photos, that positively identify what is a GTB and what is not?

    Many thanks
     
  2. EDVTEC

    EDVTEC Karting

    Jul 16, 2009
    176
    Madrid, Spain
    Full Name:
    Eduardo Caro
    #2 EDVTEC, Sep 1, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2018
    I´m the happy owner of a 348 GTB from 1994 (you can see some pictures in Flickr: EDVTEC's Photostream )

    First of all, I have to say that GTB / GTS were never available in the USA. At the end of 1993 Ferrari launched the new, improved and more radical, GTB/GTS versions of the all known 348 tb/ts. This new car had a lot of changes compared with the older 348, both on esthetical and technical area. The front grill was redesigned, some interior parts changed like the steering wheel, and panel doors, but the most important changes were done at the engine: The engine received new air intakes, higher compression ratio (they changed the compression ratio from 10:4/1 to 10:8/1), higher fuel pressure etc. All this together made that the new engine could deliver 320 bhp. Besides this, also the dynamical behavior of the car improved by a better weight balancing and by an improved suspension.

    These are all the 348 versions and how to differentiate them:

    - Model: 348 tb (transversale berlinetta). Production cycle : 1989-1993. Chassis numbers: 81617-96679. Built units: 2894. The side and down skirts painted in black, interior door panels with three decorative strikes. There is only one matt black prancing horse in the rear grill. Engine cover painted in black. Several units were aftermarket painted also in the body color. The fake front air intake has fewer grids than the later models and it has no prancing horse on it. The clutch and brake pedals have rubber covers.

    The Ferrari Challenge was initiated by Ferrari Club Nederland and designated for the Ferrari 348 tb; the series debuted in 1993 and included the Italian and European series. The engine used in these cars was similar to the road car with the only noticeable changes being the slick tyres, new body kit, better brake-pads, roll-bar, smaller battery in a different position and seat belts. In 1994 the G-spec engined cars had to be modified with the H-spec cylinder heads and injection. The car's final season was in 1995 and was replaced subsequently by the F355 Challenge. The US also got 32 numbered Challenge cars (i.e. 1 to 32). Otherwise most other Challenge cars were road cars with a 'Challenge pack' purchased from Ferrari that included the roll cage, racing seats and so on. I don't know if the US Challenge cars were actually fully assembled as such at the Factory or whether it was done by FNA.

    - Model: 348 ts. (transversale spider, (it is really a targa)). Production cycle: 1989-1993. Chassis numbers: 81651-96964. Built units: 4228. The side and down skirts painted in black, interior door panels with three decorative strikes. There is only one matt black prancing horse in the rear grill. Engine cover painted in black. Several units were aftermarket painted also in the body color. The fake front air intake has fewer grids than the later models and it has no prancing horse on it. The clutch and brake pedals have rubber covers. The removable roof was always black, but some owners have Paint them in the same body color

    - Model: 348 Serie Speciale (only for US market). Production cycle: 1993. Chassis numbers: 92812-95820. Built units: 80 (Only in USA). Side and down skirts were painted in body color, also the engine cover. More noticeable feature is that the rear grill was removed and they have two chromed prancing horses, one in the front fake air intake and another one on the rear grid. It has a different front spoiler. It also has bacquets competition seats.

    The US-only Serie Speciale came in two numbered series. The first numbered 1 to 100 and the second 1 to 15. Keith Bluemel has said he was told by the Factory that there were actually only 80 Serie Speciale regardless of the numbering to 100 (and 15) but this must be misinformation (from Ferrari? Who would have thought?) because more than 80 Serie Speciale are known.

    - Model: 348 Spider. Production cycle: 1993-1995. Chassis numbers: 94504-99947. Built units: 1146. Interior door panels have a new design, flat, with no strikes. Side and down skirts were painted in body color, also the engine cover. Both chromed prancing horses on front and rear grids. Fake front air intake has more grids than previous versions. Clutch and brake pedals are now made of perforated aluminum. There are some changes in suspensions, engine (F119H engine with more power 320 CV, intake manifold has on one half only 2 stripes and it’s taller too, the compression ratio changed from 10:4/1 to 10:8/1., etc…)

    - Model: 348 GTB. (Gran Turismo Berlinetta). Production cycle: 1993-1994. Chassis numbers: 96655-99697. Built units: 222. Interior door panels have a new design, flat, with no strikes. Side and down skirts were painted in body color, also the engine cover. Both chromed prancing horses on front and rear grids. Fake front air intake has more grids than previous versions. Clutch and brake pedals are now made of perforated aluminum. The steering wheel is also different: the central part it is perforated leather and it has the 348 logo engraved in it. There are some changes in suspensions, engine (F119H engine with more power 320 CV, intake manifold has on one half only 2 stripes and it’s taller too, the compression ratio changed from 10:4/1 to 10:8/1., etc.)

    - Model: 348 GTS. (Gran Turismo Spider (it is really a targa)). Production cycle: 1993-1994. Chassis numbers: 96824-99197. Built units: 218. Interior door panels have a new design, flat, with no strikes. Removable roof, side and down skirts were painted in body color, also the engine cover. Both chromed prancing horses on front and rear grids. Fake front air intake has more grids than previous versions. Clutch and brake pedals are now made of perforated aluminum. The steering wheel is also different: the central part it is perforated leather and it has the 348 logo engraved in it.There are some changes in suspensions, engine (F119H engine with more power 320 CV, intake manifold has on one half only 2 stripes and it’s taller too, the compression ratio changed from 10:4/1 to 10:8/1., etc.…)

    - Model: 348 GT Competizione (They were not available in the US). Production cycle: 1993-1994. Chassis numbers: 96064-99143. Built units: 56. It has different wheel rims, different steering wheel, fire extinguisher, spoilers, cloth bacquet seats, etc.. They are the most radical of the 348s. They had the H engine and suspension upgrades similar to the GTB and S, but also had huge weight reductions (190 kg) with composite bumpers, doors, etc, F40 composite seats, and larger and lightweight speedline split rims, as well as a special exhaust, etc.

    In 1993 Ferrari presented a lightened, from 1370 kg dry weight of 348 GTB to 1180 kg / 2601 lb dry weight, 348 GT Competizione model designed for the GT Championship. Safety equipment was carried from the Challenge versions. Brakes system was derived from the F40 Evoluzione model. The cars also had changed suspension and exhaust systems. The engine had 320 hp, consistent to standard late 348 production with the F119H engine. Only 50 were ever made, including 8 Right Hand Drive models. Special features included a specially trimmed steering wheel indicating the number sequence in the production of the 50 cars, 3-part Speedline rims, and Kevlar seats for weight reduction. Furthering the weight reduction, Ferrari used carbon kevlar compsite material for the front and rear bumpers as well as the doors, and replaced the standard glass rear window with light weight polycarbonate. Additional interior trim pieces such as ECU covers and door sills featured carbon kevlar on many of the 50 cars. The final drive in the gear box was changed to 25/27 ratio to help with acceleration.

    There were only 13 units exclusively built for Racing versions, out of which only 11 units were 348 GT Competizione (chassis: 84248, 95380, 96064, 96547, 97296, 97933, 98226, 98367, 98676, 99107 y 99143) and 2 more units were 348 GT/C-LM exclusively built for 1994 Le Mans 24h. GP (chasis 97553 and 98997).

    The 348 GTC was effectively to the 348 what the Challenge Stradale was to the 360 or the Scuderia to the 430. 50 numbered cars not sold to the US. The 348 GT Competizione (not to be confused with the 348 GTC) was the racing version of the 348 (for Le Mans etc.)

    Regarding the engines, there are three types:
    - F119D with 300 CV for tb/ts and Serie Speciale
    - F119G with 295 CV for markets with catalyzed engines.
    - F119H with 320 CV from 1993 on only for GTB/GTS/Spider and GT Competizione versions.
     
    hyenahf likes this.
  3. Ferrarimondial348

    Ferrarimondial348 Formula Junior

    Nov 29, 2012
    504
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Full Name:
    Stephen
    Rob- the only noticeable differences you are likely to spot when looking at photos of a GTB/GTS advertisement will be the revised front grill, rear chromed cavalino and wider rear track all of which are the same as on the 348 Spider. If there is an image of the serial number look for:
    GTB 1993-94 96655-99697, 222 built
    GTS 1993-94) 96824-99197, 218 built
    Good luck with you search.
     
  4. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    No, you can't tell by looking at online photos. Have you forgotten your other thread? The VIN is the only positive identification.

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/348-tb-gtb-photos-of-raised-lines-on-engine-plenums.581299/
     
    TheDiffuser likes this.
  5. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

    Oct 18, 2009
    8,179
    Worcester, England
    Full Name:
    Phill J
    Most of the visual GTB cues are easily replicated (but not not cheap to do):

    Painted lower body panels and front section of the engine cover? - Plenty of TB/TS models have had this carried out due to owner preference.

    Chrome rear cavallino? - Most TB/TS' seem to have chrome cavallino's rather than the original matt black (again, most likely owner preference - The matt black cavallino can be a bit too discreet for some). It's only two nuts that hold them on, and the badge is not that expensive to buy.

    Chrome front cavallino? - It's a piece of p:censored:ss to fabricate a home made bracket and fit a front cavallino (Did it myself on my car - The front grill just looks too naked without a cavallino on it!)

    Different front grille? - Hardly the hardest thing in the World to swap the TB/TS grille for a later one (Very few owners of TB/TS cars would bother though)

    Wider rear track? - Genuine GTB/GTS' achieve this with a different off-set rear wheel. These wheels can be fitted to the TB/TS cars, but for a lot less money, wheel spacers do the exact same job, and are a very popular early 348 mod (always buy quality spacers though, such as those from Hill Engineering [NOTE: I have no affiliation with Hill Engineering whatsoever - They simply have a reputation for excellent quality products in the Ferrari World] )

    Plain upper door panels instead of triple sectioned panels? - The later panels can be fitted to the TB/TS series (very few owners would bother though!)

    Different plenum chambers? - TBH, I can't see any TB/TS owner going to the trouble of fitting them - So from a visual point of view, they'd be the best, instant way of spotting a genuine GTB/GTS (no guarantee though that some determined owner wouldn't have fitted the later plenums [or even a later complete engine come to that!] )

    An early TB/TS can be spotted easily by the fact that there are only 4 nuts on the rear suspension turrets in the engine bay, whereas later TB/TS and GTB/GTS' have six nuts (four in a square, and then two diagonally opposed nuts, slightly further apart)
     
  6. TheDiffuser

    TheDiffuser Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2017
    404
    Full Name:
    The Diffuser
    Thanks for the reminder Wade. I think there may be slight differences between world markets for these models.

    The engine manifold covers seem to be the easiest way to ID TB vs GTB, in a photo at least. Dealers from overseas to where I am, don't supply great detail in email photos and they certainly don't supply engine numbers that would confirm the H engine. I've even been told on one occasion they wouldn't supply the VIN-No I didn't go back to them!

    Somebody from the other posts here confirm trim/body parts that can easily have been changed from TB to GTB eg door trims, so I guess the engine number matched to VIN will be the best way.

    At present a dealer has confirmed a car he has is a GTB but it's built 1991. I'll make sure to do due diligence, thanks.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  7. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    If it were me, I'd go and see for myself. The GTB/GTC, along with the Competizione, are jumping away in value/price when compared to the rest of the model lineup. So now's the time...

    If a dealer isn't giving you a straight answer then that tells me they're hiding something.
     
    TheDiffuser likes this.
  8. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie

    Mar 17, 2006
    4,685
    Seattle, WA
    Full Name:
    Brian White
    No GTB/GTS was built in 1991, so they obviously don’t know. My ts was built in May 1992 (sn 94472) so it is a relatively late ts, and is still not a GTS.
     
    TheDiffuser likes this.
  9. hyenahf

    hyenahf F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2004
    2,603
    "some suspension changes" one of the most important changes on the late 348s were the relocated pick up points on the rear suspension. it was much more than just making the rear track wider through wheel changes but an alteration in suspension geometry similar to the 355 as i recall
     
  10. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie

    Mar 17, 2006
    4,685
    Seattle, WA
    Full Name:
    Brian White
    Yes, but that's highly overrated and certainly not a reason to decide between an early 348 vs a later 348. BTW, that change happened on later ts/tb cars as well and is not unique to the GTS/GTB.
     
    Pangea likes this.

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