BaT just listed a 575M 6-speed

Heads up to my former Maranello brothers, BaT just listed a 575M 6-speed. Should be a real test for them to see how much money is in their auction rooms.

It has been driven, not a Queen.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2003-ferrari-575-maranello-6/

 

There's one in houston similar color I believe 28k miles asking $275k at drivers source. I think the premiums on manual cars is coming down somewhat, I was looking at a 360 spider recently that I reallllly wanted, my wife nixed it but the ask was $159k last year and now its asking $128k, 6k mile 360 spider.

 

can you send me the link to the 6k mile 360 please.

 

love the color. not sure why but my eye prefers the 550.

 

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/2003-ferrari-360-spider-6-speed-manual-6-000-miles.582047/

John is a great guy, he owns a rare car dealer here in miami he showed me the car and got me top dollar for my 575 as a trade. I really wanted the 360 but I have an 812 on the way and we went to look at it and the wife said "why is that $30k more" we already have a ferrari Im sick of you wasting money on cars.....women will never get it. Although I did take a bath on our S65 we recently traded in, my other cars shouldn't be so awful.

 

thnx will check it out!

 

walk her to her closet......

 

Henry Im more interested in how on earth this guy did a $17,000 major on his 575. Seriously man mine has been pretty affordable so far, did that that include a new clutch + belts + water pump + tires + paint job + tinting + all fluids changed + a tank of gas???

 

thats the thing.... they sometimes need more that just a lock and swap belts and tensioners.

probably motor mounts, plenum hoses, full fluids. likely a clutch at the mileage. hose or two leaking and some other gremlins it adds up quick..

looks like the seller bought in the 2016 euphoria time.... wonder how far under water he is

 

I don't care how much adds up, it looks like $8000 in labor and $9000 in parts? That is ridiculous, Im sorry it just is, the ferrari dealer is what keeps people away from buying these cars. My indy ran the local ferrari dealer service department and there is just no way he's ever throwing me a $17k bill, no way, but people see these $17k invoices and then writeoff ferrari ownership. Silly really. Clutch is $5k or so + lock and swap belts is $2500 or so, where is the last $10k????

That car will likely be $225-235k or so. Im going off the one at driversource in houston having less miles and its been sitting there forever it seems at $278k. This one has more miles, also not red.

The bill shows the major alone as being $7350 of labor and $1500 of parts.... that is one giant lol, whatever its ferrari san fran those people out there have more money than brains i guess

 

well it look like there is a grand or so in sticky no more.... but the labor on the 35k and 45k services which look to be just a laundry list of items is astronomical.

also looks like it had a service with belts for around $4k - which is more like it @ another shop

 

This looks like a nice car with modulars. No FHP though.

How much will the fact that it's a converted Euro car put buyers off in the US? The reverse would be a turn off in Europe.

 

europeans would not like a euro car converted to USA specs?

 

A Ferrari first sold in Europe, to Euro spec, then imported into the US and converted to US spec, and then reimported back into Europe and converted back to Euro spec, would be much less sellable in Europe than a Ferrari first sold in the European country it is now being sold in.

But the analogy I was making was a Ferrari first sold into the US market, then imported into Europe. That would also be less desirable than a straight Euro car.

It's the old question of whether the car has any 'stories' but in this instance there's more to it than that as taking the car into the US requires physical changes, which are then undone if it is returned to Europe.

The car itself could be absolutely fine, but you know how the market works.

There's one other element here, and that's Carfax, which doesn't exist in Europe. In Europe cars are basically sold on a trust and inspection basis. In the UK there is a record of whether a car is written off by insurance (totalled) or stolen, but nothing else, and in the rest of Europe not even that. So this 575's clean carfax only extends to its time in the US.

On another note, there was a spate of cheap Ferraris from the US market imported into Europe in the heady 2015-2016 days. A car could have been badly hit in the US, with the evidence on Carfax, but the majority of Europe buyers would not know to check that. Older Ferraris also had modifications for the US market which made them worse to drive than the European cars, the 308s had extra reinforcement in the doors, for example.

 

Here's a question, I know its not original, but a one here in the US could use factory OEM parts to convert a 575 to manual for $30-50k from the estimates i've seen. Obviously its not original but neither are many of those daytona spiders that are selling for huge sums. Many 575 F1's can be had sub $100k here in the US, well not many but there are some, why aren't more people buying these and converting them and trying to sell them? If a real factory manual is $300-400k and an F1 conversion is $95k + $40k, there is an enormous gap between $135k and $350k it seems like there would be a happy medium of buyers at $190k. I dont know just a guess to me, I like the F1 system in mine but I've always been curious about the giant gap. I know last year near me, my same car was listed at ferrari palm beach for $399k and I had just paid $104k for mine. Mine had 19k miles when I bought it and their's was 14k miles I believe.

 

i would never pay $190k for a converted car...... especially when i can get a "correct" 550 for less

i'm guessing the buyers of the 247 or so cars are truly collectors or collector wannabees.

it will also be interesting to see if that spread can be maintained.

dont converted daytona coupes sell at a slight premium or the same as the coupes ?

 

There was one here near me asking $695k recently. It was a conversion and it wasn't even red.

 

There is virtually no premium, if ant, for a Daytona Spider conversion. That $695K is just about what coupes are bringing. Real Spiders bring in excess of $1M.

 

This has crossed my mind also.

I'm still looking for a 575 and I'd prefer a manual over F1 but I'd be happy with either if it were the right colour/condition.

I can only comment on the UK market but we seem to be in the middle of some sort of vacuum here and very little seems to be selling (550's still seem to be trickling along if priced correctly but not 575's). Prices have eased, in some cases considerably. The real gap between an F1 and Manual 575 here is less than the current asking prices suggest. Not that many years ago it was a GBP 10k to GBP 15K difference between F1 and Manual. Not the 100% or so being asked now.

I am only aware of one actual sale of a manual 575M here in the UK with verifiable numbers by the dealer I spoke with recently (no doubt more may have changed hands but this is the only one I've had actual confirmed numbers on by the selling dealer). This one:-

http://www.theferraricentre.com/previously-sold/6027194-ferrari-575-m-manual/

Advertised for GBP 150K actually sold for GBP 120K circa 10 months ago.

So I've been wondering if Ferrari offer a service similar to Aston Martin Heritage where you can return a 2000ish Vanquish S back the factory for a manual conversion? If it wasn't a daft amount of money I'd be interested. I'd assume if it were undertaken by the factory that the resulting value of the car wouldn't be adversely effected even if it weren't as valuable as an originally built manual car?

Personally though, this is less about what it's worth in the future and more about what I want to use it for and what I want (and can afford) to pay for one now. I have no children or anyone else for that matter to leave a legacy to so I'm less bothered about long term investment value, more about buying something I can enjoy for a reasonable price.

The manual 575M's currently advertised in the UK market are at daft asking prices and IMO unlikely to find new homes. Especially cars north of 40,000 miles at massive premiums.

I would happily own a converted 575M as long as I knew the quality of the conversion was to a high standard. Which is why I'd probably be happier paying to convert one myself.

 

Im not sure if the factory offers it but my tech said its doable with all OEM parts, nothing aftermarket for $40-50k. One member here said he could do it for $30k. I don't know but I trust my tech with my car so I would def do it through him if I ever wanted to but I love the F1 system, its nice. Still though the gap seems to be about 200-300% which is CRAZY, Im just shocked more people aren't doing it.

 

No similar program at Ferrari. Might be interesting to ask their Ferrari Classiche if they would do one. Price would likely be exorbitant, though. They cast new blocks and heads for cars, so doing this seems pretty simple compared to that.

 

I think converting a 575 to 3 pedals is a great idea if you want to drive a stick shift 575 at a reasonable cost. Let’s say all in its $150k vs a similar level 550 for $125k. Which would you prefer?

However, converting a car to make money is a terrible idea. Taking the original V12 Vanquish as an example, those cars were direct competitors to Maranellos, are even rarer, and are even more unloved in the market today. As mentioned, the factory offers a stick shift conversion for around $40k. A nice Vanquish runs about $75k or around $100k for a S. Factory converted cars sold recently do not generate a profit and usually don’t even sell at a high enough premium to recover the initial “investment”.

Bottom line convert a car if you think it will improve your ownership and driving experience, not to try to arbitrage some asking price gap between a F1 car and a stick car. Buy cars to drive, assume you’ll suffer standard depreciation rates, and be pleasantly surprised if that doesn’t occur!

 

This is pretty much my mindset.

I would be more comfortable sending the car back to Italy, but as Taz suggests I imagine the cost would likely be prohibitive.

 

there are a couple shops that have done 575 to f1 conversions... at least one on the west coast and one on the east... i was quoted around $30k.

there is also a member here in atlanta that did the swap himself.

like any restomod - you'd do it because you want a gated 575 to drive . not to make money.

 

This car was not a euro car-- it was a US car delivered in Europe. Look closely at the documentation and door stickers, and you'll see.

First owner was Kent Nagano, a famous classical music conductor and performer.