Okay, so I bought the car last week in TX, good PPI on it by a reputable shop. The car drove great for the first 1000 miles from Dallas into Arizona. Got some questioable fuel in new mexico before we hit AZ. Upon pulling off the highway in AZ I noticed a miss in the engine that wasnt there before. Felt like 1 cyl was missing. Topped off with some 91 and started off for California. Car cruised fine at 3500-4000+ rpm for the next 3.5 hours when we stopped for fuel again. Upon startup at that fuel station the mis was much more noticeable. It is 130AM at this point. Get back on the highway and the car feels normal again from 3500+ RPM. Upon exiting the mis is even worse and at city speeds 35-50 mph check engine light triggers. I get the car home the last few miles driving it extra mellow. Upon pulling codes i get codes for P0300 random/ multiple misfire and misfire on cyls P0301 P0308#1 & #8 Finally P0132 02 sensor circuit high voltage bank 1 sensor 1. Now with that being said I started troubleshooting. With the car idling I disconnected separately the coil on cylinder number 1 and cylinder number eight disconnecting cylinder #1 cause the misfire to become worse disconnecting the injector on cylinder #8 no change so I don't believe there's a mis on #8 I believe it is on cylinder 1 only. Cleaned MAF's Hit the intake manifold gasket area with carb cleaner while running (no change in mis-fire) Swapped coils 1&4 and 5&8 mis fire remained on #1 regarless of coil and coil connected or not. Replaced all spark plugs. #1 seemed slightly wet but not wet enough to be fouled. Other plugs looked fine. (Ill post pics of 1&8 plugs later. Since the plug was wet I have not started messing with the fuel system yet because I'm assuming they got fuel I could be wrong here but this seems more like an ignition issue than a fuel issue. Ive ordered a set of intake manifold gaskets from ferrari that will be here on Tuesday. Anything else im missing here? Besides combustionon cyl #1 �� Details on the car it is in 01 F1 spider with 36000 miles. For those of you that are not aware I am an FAA certified aircraft mechanic so I have no problem getting into this car and getting my hands dirty personally. Does anyone have a link for the convertible top removal I have 2 workshop manual but I'm looking for something a little more detailed or photo oriented as from what I've read I need to remove that in order to replace the intake manifold gaskets. Thanks in advance. Image Unavailable, Please Login
I had multiple misfires from a dodgy oxygen sensor. Could it maybe be a failing injector? Or a deteriorating elwctrical connector? Some guys and also myself have noticed that some of our connectors are becoming hard and old and cracking. I also had sstrange missfiring when coasting and attempting to rev the car due to a failed fuel canister. Apparantly that is very common. Look forward to hearing what you find. Good luck with everything. Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk
Yes that will help get a view of how the O2 sensor is functioning. And double check the injector. The signal wire was my issue on the boost harness for my Miata. It was dumping fuel due to a worn short on the no.2 cylinder wire. Stranded me twice around Thanksgiving. Flat bed both times. Took a couple weeks to find it. May need a new cat now but boost doesn't show a restriction. I'll check it in the spring.
Check the intake manifold gasket. They are well known for breaking and causing leak at the runner to the head connection. Regards, Jim
Correct me if im wrong but if you disconnect lets say #1 plug wire while engine is running and the engine starts running rough that says that #1 cylinder is firing. If you disconnect #8 and theres no change then#8 is not firing...Am i correct?
Yes that is correct, and also if you disconnect coil packs in search of misfires you are dumping fuel into the chamber and damaging the cat.
Yes I wrote that backwards by mistake there was no change with cylinder number 1 coil being removed and the misfire became worse with cylinder number 8 coil removed thanks for catching that
Have you confirmed a leak? Second have you done a running compression test on the engine? You could have a broken valve spring. Not that common but it does happen.
You should do some more diagnosis before you jump the gun and replace the intake manifold gaskets. Have you tried using propane enrichment, or a stethoscope or a smoke machine to pinpoint the exact location of the supposed vacuum leak? Removal of the convertible top mechanism requires an engine hoist and a special jig/fixture that mounts to the top in order raise it out of the car.
Negative and negative... i have a hoist to lift it i just need to rig it. Thats the easy part, the hard part is finding the removal procedure. No smoke, no propane, however as I mentioned before, carb cleaner and also starting fluid sprayed around the base had no change. I doubt it is a broken valve spring because the car runs normally at 4000+ rpm
I'm not a pro. But it seems like you have little data pointing to the intake manifold gasket. Before that undertaking especially in a spider I would check the injectors. Misfire on #8 is consistent and you have already swapped the coils and changed or swapped the plugs. Perhaps the injector is stuck and flooding out the cylinder at low rpm (hence the wet plug). At higher rpm the engine catches up to the stuck #8 injector. Personally before doing the gaskets I would put in Techron high potency cleaner and even add seafoam. Pull injectors and maybe swap #8 with another or just have them cleaned. Also have a pro take a look at it and run diagnostics with a Leonardo will be well worth the diagnostic cost. Is there recourse from the seller. In Massachusetts we have a 30 day lemon law. May be worth the call. Anyway wouldn't the cylinder be running lean with an intake manifold gasket leak, why would it be wet? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We are definitely thinking along the same lines here just a few of the "experts" that I have talked to have all "guaranteed" me its the manifold gaskets go figure. I think a seafoam treatment is in order for sure as well as an injector swap. I did some additional testing for continuity to the ignition wiring leads hot the connector of the coil I have continuity and signal coming through to the coil itself. I am beginning to like your idea of a possible injector malfunction especially because we got that questionable fuel in New Mexico the car had almost no miles put on it in several years and may have had some sediment in the tanks combine at with low quality fuel (not low octane) or possibly un filtered fuel from the gas station ....
Okay, Ran 2 cans of seafoam thru no change. Today, I finally got my vacuum tester home from my hangar today, tested the car.. ~7 InHg vacuum @ idle. Do you guys think that it safe to say its the Intake Manifold gaskets? In aviation anything under 11-12 we go straight to looking at loose or deteriorated intake runners/attachments. I'm ruling out injector malfunction since after driving for 20 mins the right cat was glowing when I pulled in. Thoughts? PLEASE ADVISE ME ON THE FOLLOWING Also, Since the car is due for a clutch, and 30k service, Cam belts tensioners valve cover gaskets etc and now the intake manifold gaskets.... Should I just pull the engine here and accomplish all of these at once? This is gonna run me ~7-8k to get it all done at the indy shop. I guess what I'm asking is should I just spend the time pulling the whole engine/transaxle and do all the services here? Or should waste my time lifting the top to change intake manifold gaskets and timing belts (gonna have the interior out anyways) and send the car into the shop for the clutch. Or should I just send it in and write the check? Thoughts?
I'm no pro, and I zero experience with spiders. With that in mind If it were me I would: - fill out some of your profile data, name etc. - this is a newly purchased car. Think about recourse with seller. - get more data at least OBD-2. What are the o2 sensors telling you. I use EOBD-Facile app and a wifi connector. - possibly do the injector swap/ have them cleaned professionally. - I'm confused on the logic when disconnecting coil. If car was not firing on one cylinder, and that bad cylinder's coil was disconnected wouldn't that affect idle less then if a coil for a good cylinder was disconnected? ( running on 7 vs 6 cylinders). - which cat was hot 1-4, or 5-8? Would help isolate faulty bank. Also, wouldn't an intake manifold leak more likely cause a lean condition ? A red hot cat suggests gas burning in cat. That, and wet plug suggest unburnt fuel not lean. - I don't have data at this moment on normal vacuum. reading. Hopefully someone else can chime in, you could check the wsm. - I'm not a "Spiderman" and have no spider senses but I see no need to pull the engine for the stuff u describe. - if u can't diagnose it bring it to a pro (with a sd3 if needed) before delving into repairs and maintenance. -ray Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I had mention this earlier but what do your fuel trims look like at idle and at 1500 and 3000 ..They can help diagnose the issue ...Based on fuel trim behavior one can usually see if a vacuum leak maf or spark plug/coil leak ...I also used the eobd facile program Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
Once you get long and short term fuel trims it will help to point to right diagnosis Forninstance ...When viewing short term fuel trims in real time one can see an change immediately caused by spraying water, starter fuel on the gaskets if you have a leak .. Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
Good idea; I prefer water or carb cleaner as both are safer than starter fuel. You will see the vacuum go up (OK, technically down); you should be seeing ~ 14 inches. But you'll also hear the difference. AD70 had a good point about dumping raw fuel when you disconnect the plugs; I think this also stress the coils. Best is to ground the plug wires (but that still dumps raw fuel). Some diagnostic testers (I assume the SD3 can) will do a cylinder-balance (cylinder cut-out) test. An OBDII reader can not do this though
You need to check the basics before you take anything apart. The wet spark plug and glowing catalyst are indications that a cylinder/s is getting fuel but is not burning it. It is getting burned in the catalyst causing it to glow red (a good way to melt down your catalyst). If all of the spark plugs are firing correctly, the next step is to determine the mechanical function of the motor. You should do a compression and a leak-down check before proceeding any further.
This was all back in March of 2017. I sent the car to a local Ferrari specialist shop (that will remain unnamed) who advised that I was looking at a IIRC 15-20k to rebuild the engine. It was believed that precat material got into the cylinders. I'm not 100% on that. I told to shop to reassemble what every they had opened up. I then sold the car to a wholesale broker friend of mine for exactly what I paid for the car minus the expenses of getting it home and have the diagnosis done on the above car. Last I heard the car was in the North East USA fully repaired and running well. I'm glad I dodged that bullet. I just bought a new (to me) 360 Coupe a couple of months ago in Washington DC and Drove it all the way home to CA solo. It was a lot of fun. The biggest lesson I learned was not to EVER get a convertible again. I could have done all of the work and diagnosed/fixed that car, but that stupid roof mechanism is truly in the way of everything. I didn't want to mess with it. 2nd lesson is low miles = lots of problems in many cases. My current car has wayyy over the 30 some thousand the car this thread was about and I am literally daily driving it and it has 0 issues at all. Cheers
