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F12 TDF Drive Dynamic

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by Eilig, Sep 20, 2018.

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  1. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    #1 Eilig, Sep 20, 2018
    I am considering purchase of a TDF. However, the dealer will not grant me the opportunity of a test drive. The car is on consignment, and the owner is guarded against potential buyers taking his TDF for a "joy ride."

    The purpose of this posting is to solicit info from owners/drivers of TDF's, regarding specific drive dynamics of the TDF. I have the following questions:

    1) How would you rate ride quality? Compared to a regular F12? Compared to a Speciale?

    I have read that the TDF has springs that are 20% stiffer than a regular F12. Some reviewers note that: (a) you can feel how much firmer the ride is within the first meter of driving, and (b) even when you press the "Bumpy Road" button in a TDF, the difference is barely perceptible.

    I have a Speciale and I must say that, after pressing the "Bumpy Road" button, the ride is considerably/noticeably smoother. It sounds like the same cannot be said for the TDF?

    2) How would you rate the handling?

    For example, several reviewers, notably Chris Harris et al, have noted the "twitchy" nature of the TDF. They have said that even Ferrari engineers noted this is NOT a car you can just get in, and drive. It is apparently a "real handful." Have others found this to be the case?

    3) Have any TDF owners experienced any of the same galvanic action/electrolysis issues between dissimilar metals, causing the paint to bubble in certain areas, as has been the case with certain F12's?

    I live in an area with far poorer than average pavement quality, so the issue of ride quality is of particular importance.

    Any info/feedback greatly appreciated, thanks!
     
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  2. j09333

    j09333 Formula 3
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    #2 j09333, Sep 20, 2018
    Rides firm and solid.
    You will feel the pain when tdf gets over bumpy road.
    Electronics are the same.
    It will have issues of certain mailfunction when starting up but it soon goes when you restart it. Same old ferrari glitches. No worries.

    Ah the handling.
    Do you have any track experiences?
    I mean do you know when car reaches its limit?
    This car is not for novice. It demands skill.
    I track my cars ferrari or not alot and I would say my skill is beyond ready but I am taking this car seriously. I sit up and focus when I drive this thing.
    Problem is tdf is fast. Way fast. It will get you in trouble really fast too.
    This car is totaly different car from f12. It is only built in that platform.
    It is the car Ferrari will not build again in near future. It is old school car which lets you do whatever you want and don’t care if you hurt yourself or car while doing it.
     
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  3. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    #3 Eilig, Sep 20, 2018
    I have track experience in GT3 and Speciale... But both of these cars are tossable and you have to be really stupid to get yourself in trouble driving these. What you are saying confirms what I've already heard regarding tdf, and that is, it requires huge respect otherwise it turns into a widowmaker. That I can live with, but it is the firm ride that concerns me most... I've dumped so many cars in the past because I thought the ride was unacceptably harsh. (I have a bad back from previous injuries earlier in my life.) With the Speciale, especially in Bumpy Road mode, I like that Ferrari has proven you can have a great handling car without being punished by overly harsh ride. I can't tell you how many passengers of mine have commented how amazed they were with ride quality in Speciale. Sounds like that's never going to be the case with tdf. I need to decide if this car is right for me. I WANT to like it, as everything else sounds excellent. But I also know myself and if I find the ride too harsh, won't keep it.
     
  4. 4_Eff_Sake

    4_Eff_Sake Formula Junior

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    #4 4_Eff_Sake, Sep 20, 2018
    The ride is very firm, but not uncomfortably so. It is far more enjoyable to drive than my GT3. The first thing you notice is how precise and immediate is the turn in - there is a massive amount of grip in the front end. Hardly any body roll compared to the Berlinetta. The best way I can describe it is that the car feels “alive” - literally. Most performance cars I have driven are powerful but tame. The TDF feels like it could do what it wants whenever it wants if you stop concentrating at any decent speed. J09333 is right - it demands a huge amount of respect to drive fast. I have tracked it three times now - it is epic.


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  5. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

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    #5 JTSE30, Sep 22, 2018
    Will you hold on to your Speciales or will they be moved to make room for the TDF?
     
  6. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    #6 Eilig, Sep 23, 2018
    Speciales not going anywhere. :) In fact, the spec of the aforementioned tdf is exactly the same as my GF car, so they would make a nice matched pair.
     
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  7. George330

    George330 Formula 3

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    #7 George330, Sep 23, 2018
    Personally I do not think the TDF is dangerous. Clearly the car was designed to be driven with its electronic aids on; without them it oversteers very easily and combined with the big grip from the wide front tyres it makes the car feel very strange. Doesn’t mean it is a widow maker, in my opinion it is the greatest modern Ferrari (hypercars excluded). If you have the opportunity to buy one you should take it, the car is incredible


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  8. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    #8 Eilig, Sep 23, 2018
    Thanks George. I appreciate the info... I love the look and sound of the car... The only thing I've not been able to do is drive it. So info like this is very helpful. As I contemplate further, I'm realizing that the opportunity to have one in the same exact matching spec as my Speciale is proving perhaps too difficult to resist...
     
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  9. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

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    #9 JTSE30, Sep 23, 2018
    Good to hear on the Speciales!

    Sounds like your major concern is for your back and harshness of ride, for that, you could easily be the passenger, so maybe the owner would be willing to take you for a drive?
     
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  10. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    #10 Eilig, Sep 23, 2018
    He's out of town, which is why that was not possible. But along those lines, we both work with and highly trust the same dealer, so perhaps he'd let our dealer friend drive with me in the passenger seat! Good idea... I'll give it a shot.
     
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  11. BarryK

    BarryK Formula 3

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    #11 BarryK, Sep 28, 2018
    If you are interested purely in the driving dynamic, I would suggest that you take an 812 for a test drive too. You read a lot here about how the tdf is a completely different car etc but having driven both I would say that the tdf feels like a work in progress compared to the more finished article that is the 812. Yes the sound is different (812 has more insulation etc) but the performance is virtually identical. It looks like 812 picked up where the tdf left off with rear wheel steering and the big front tyres but then tuned the package to make it behave sensibly. Of course, if you care more about limited edition/looks etc, then that may override the driving dynamic.
     
  12. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    #12 Eilig, Sep 28, 2018
    Thanks Barry... I was able to test drive the Tdf and fell in love. Unfortunately, per my taste, the styling of the 812 precludes it from consideration. Perhaps the Tdf body mounted on the 812 chassis would be the perfect package. But left to choose one or the other, I've decided to proceed with the Tdf.
     
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  13. JackCongo

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    #13 JackCongo, Sep 28, 2018
    I own a tdf and have driven the 812, I don’t see the tdf as a work in progress at all.
    I rather see two different philosophies : the tdf is pretty extreme while the 812 is a very high performance GT.
    I feel like another fchatter who also own both cars : the tdf is like a modern F40...
    Definitely a keeper anyway !
     
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  14. of2worlds

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    #14 of2worlds, Sep 28, 2018
    Grigio Titanio?
     
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  15. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    #15 Eilig, Sep 28, 2018
    Ferro
     
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  16. 4_Eff_Sake

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    #16 4_Eff_Sake, Sep 29, 2018
    Sorry but I can’t disagree more. I tracked the TDF for about 30 laps yesterday, and then had 6 laps in an 812. There is nothing “work in progress” about the TDF on the track - it is perfect. The 812, whilst extraordinarily powerful, is not as agile and has more body roll in the corners. The performance is certainly virtually identical on the road, and the 812 is a magnificent package for touring, but on the track, the TDF takes the edge.


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  17. 4_Eff_Sake

    4_Eff_Sake Formula Junior

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    #17 4_Eff_Sake, Sep 29, 2018
    (Edit: posted in wrong thread. Deleted)
     
  18. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    #18 Eilig, Sep 29, 2018
    This. My dealer friend, who also used to race a 458 GT3 and is a pro driver, was provided the opportunity of 5 hot laps at COTA in a tdf, followed by 5 laps inn 812. He said virtually same as what you say here.
     
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  19. BarryK

    BarryK Formula 3

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    #19 BarryK, Sep 29, 2018
    My comments were based on driving them back to back on the twisty roads, but I don't know these cars on the track, and I don't doubt what you say. I also imagine the tyre difference between the tdf and the 812 would show up moon track.

    The 812 was far more linear (but still sharp) compared to the tdf. And still exciting. The bucking bronco that the tdf is can be fun, but only for a time and hard to sustain. The 812 isn't perfect, for example on rutted roads where directional stability isn't great, but feels a better package with similar performance.

    As for the track, I'd always prefer a smaller more agile lighter mid-engined V8 over either of these great but heavy cars.
     
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  20. j09333

    j09333 Formula 3
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    #20 j09333, Sep 29, 2018
    Tyre should be the same.
     
  21. 4_Eff_Sake

    4_Eff_Sake Formula Junior

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    #21 4_Eff_Sake, Sep 29, 2018
    They’d be the V8’s I kept passing. ;^)


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  22. BarryK

    BarryK Formula 3

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    #22 BarryK, Sep 29, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2018
    At least in Europe the 812 is supplied with regular P zero while tdf came with Corsa. Makes a big difference especially on track.


    If lap time bragging rights matter, an 812 would be near identical.
     
  23. 4_Eff_Sake

    4_Eff_Sake Formula Junior

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    #23 4_Eff_Sake, Sep 30, 2018
    Correct on both points

    Correct... “nearly”



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  24. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    #24 Eilig, Sep 30, 2018
    It would be fun to have the Tdf/812 V12 engine in a mid-engine layout, sans KERS. Why hasn't Ferrari built this car.
     
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  25. nmcclure

    nmcclure Formula Junior
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    #25 nmcclure, Sep 30, 2018
    would be the most amazing, especially if they could keep <3100 lbs wet.....
     
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