Yes, I converted my F1 575 to a gated, three-pedal manual

Thanks Bryce for sharing! This is why I love spending the morning coffee together with Fchat

 

Again, I'm really glad you are doing a project that makes you happy.

I know a lot of people will cry over this and some will argue that conversions may impact the market. I say, hogwash, do what you want.

As a 3 pedal owner, I do not believe these projects impact my cars desirability at all. 3 pedals are expensive because the buyers want Ferrari originality. I'm concerned over my cars value as I do t have original modulars or radio. I have retro-fit fhp/hgtc hybrid handling components. All easily reversed but those are of concern for a future buyer of an original 3 pedal. We are not cross shopping buyers. Look at Daytona conversions for future market.

That said, great job and enjoy your car and the fruits of your labor. Let the haters hate as you zoom by with a huge smile.

Best!
dsd

 

Bravo!!
Looking at the steering wheel column, I am sure there is a way to remove the paddle shifters, after what you just a accomplished! Any plans to do this?
Ron

 

Looks good Bryce! I'm glad Ricambi America was able to be a part of your success in this project.

 

I googled 'class 8 tractor' and and I could imagine that one would lurch forward if the clutch mysteriously engaged without warning (especially if no trailer was present) but rest assured, our cars have precious little torque at idle speed and even side-stepping the clutch pedal at anything less than say 2,000rpms in the dry would invariably result in a stall with little or no forward movement.

 

So you stated at the outset that this conversion would have a better shift quality than a 575 but now you say it doesn't but has better shift quality than a 550? Have I got that correct?


I have worked on and driven both considerably and never found an advantage of one over the other assuming correct adjustment and lubricants.

I also must have missed the parts about needing 550 components to do this conversion. I have read where they were used as a matter of availability but never a mechanical need.

 

Brian, I'm sorry that you felt that something was misleading or inaccurate about the description of the shifting operation. As I said, it shifts better than my previous 550 and other 550s I have driven did, and the clutch effort is smoother. Other people have remarked on that as well. I do not know exactly why this is the case, and have offered my best explanation for it. You may be able to offer some insight on it based on your experience and knowledge, and that would be welcomed, as opposed to posting your comment above, especially if you have extensive experience in driving a 575 that was converted from F1 to a gated manual. One knowledgeable person who has your level of experience thinks the shifting improvement is because the linkage geometry is optimized. Or it may be because this transmission, having been shifted by the F1 unit during its entire life and serviced regularly, doesn't have the wear associated with transmissions that have been operated by human hands.

The information contained in this post is free for everyone to use as they see fit. I did reach out to you about a year ago and ask if you knew if the F1 ECUs could be used in a conversion, and your answer was that someone else should be able to help me. I've risked using my own car to evaluate and experiment with several different ECUs now, and learned a lot about what works and what doesn't, and I'm sharing the information here. You can now use this information in your own business to know exactly what works and what doesn't, and I hope you and other professional techs find it to be of some assistance.

I do truly hope that it brings some conversion jobs your way, as well as bringing conversion jobs to other independent technicians who make a living doing this work. I'm sure that people have inquired about it, but the number of unknowns make it a risky proposition to undertake. Most customers probably don't want to gamble with their car and their money that a conversion would work. I've shown that it does, and I've shown that having manual-software ECUs are essential to the process. I’m also happy to help anyone who wants to undertake this conversion on their own, and I welcome anyone to reach out to me to discuss it in more detail. I’ll post all of the details eventually, including a parts list and itemizing the NLA parts, and after I get a few thousand miles of safe operation on this clutch, I’ll be posting that as well.

Dsd, thanks so much for your comments. I truly appreciate them, and I agree completely. This conversion process is not going to affect the OEM gated cars out there one iota. A converted 575 is not likely to be worth much more than an F1 575, if that. It will certainly never threaten the values of the factory gated 575s out there. Many people are reluctant to purchase a Ferrari in anything less than OEM condition. It’s understandable, because these cars are not inexpensive. It’s the rarity and originality that ensures value and collectability as a future investment, or at least minimizes the likelihood of losing money on resale. This is true for me as well, as I've kept everything for my car that would be needed to return it to OEM condition. The modular wheels and blu scuro interior are in storage, and the F1 parts are still on my car. My friend up at FoA begged me to leave the shift paddles on the column, so I did. He loves it.

When I was at Ferrari of Newport Beach having them inspect my 575M, and Paul Brosowske and Alex Morales were going over the undercarriage with me while it was on the lift, an older gentleman walked up to look at the car and talk with us. We didn’t talk long, but he did remark that he owned four 575s, but that he was reluctant to drive a gated car because of the increase in value. I don’t know if any of his were actually gated, but I can understand an owner feeling that way. This conversion will allow someone to buy an F1 575, convert it to a manual and drive it as much as they want, and then convert it back to F1 if they want to sell it later, without risking damage and mileage to a factory gated car, whose value is likely to increase quite a bit as time goes on.

It’s not my intention to make a collectible 575 here. I just love these cars, and I love driving them. For me, the manual transmission is part of the charm and the appeal. There are probably other people out there who feel the same way, and if I can help them make their car more enjoyable, then that makes me happy.

Daniel, you're fantastic. It was always a pleasure to order parts from you, and I honestly could not have done it without you. You are a great friend to the Ferrari community, and I'm grateful for your help. I know that is true for many other people on this forum as well. Thanks so much!

Thanks again for all the positive comments. It was a lot of work.

 

I will look forward to reading Themaven's account of driving his two cars back-to-back at some point, hopefully this year! ;-)

As I see it, there is certainly room for some variability from one car to another (550 to 550, 575M to 575M) but in terms of any subjective comparison between any given 550 and any given 575M, the most obvious physical difference would be the different synchros on the later model's 'box.


Factors that could/will have an impact of the sensation of using a manual transmission...

1. The shifter mechanism itself - if the parts are indeed all common, there 'could be' some variability in how it has all been assembled/adjusted.
2. The condition of the clutch - some clutches appear to require extra effort especially as they reach end of life but the apparent reasons for this phenomenon have never made much sense to me.
3. The more sophisticated synchros on the later model (triple cone synchros on first and second *must have* a profound and noticeable benefit?
4. The fluids - as mentioned by Brian above.
5. The condition of engine and/or transmission mounts.

P.s. In Darius' case, he will have the added variable of the LHD vs. RHD experience. All we know is that the shifter mechanism is located in a slightly different position to bring it closer to the driver and that RHD cars have bent gear sticks. Physically, the end result will inevitably be a marginal difference in the objective feel but perhaps the subjective sensation and 'muscle memory' effects could well be much stronger.

 

QUOTE] Maranellos and Ferrari's in general tend to be inconsistent due to inconsistently adjusted shifters and lubricant related situations from either poor lubricant choices or poor servicing schedules.[/QUOTE]

What is your lubricant choice for the 550?

 

Planned for this April. After being snowed off (!) last April. With 2 cars of 13 and 19 years of age respectively, this can only really be a comparison between 2 individual cars rather than the models..especially on the gearbox..

 

Truly an inspiring and amazing post. This has added some real value to the forum! Impressive, sir.

 

Awesome, Bryce....I look forward to your further posts/information on this. Thanks for sharing....

 

Congrats. The 575 and a manual transmission..... Hard to beat combination! It is all about The fun factor. Good job!

 

Any updates 10 months later?

 

Bryce, After reading through this post I have a question - Can you use the original automatic gearbox in this conversion? Is it the same as the manual gearbox however it just has the automated mechanism attached to it?

Do you have the parts list available to make this conversion?

Thanks
Joe

 

The transmissions for three pedal and F1 are identical manual gearboxes. Gearchange and clutch actuation mechanisms (plus a few plugs for unneeded sensors, etc) are the only differences.

 

I can buy a used 575M F1 transmission from a car that had engine fire with only 55.000 kms. and was written off and taken apart to sell the parts. Will this have a better synchro? Mine is a bit rough from 2nd to 3rd... if I change the box to the 575 box, then, it will sync faster just like a normal car? What would be needed to to that swap? Will the axle spline fit into the 575 box? Just curious. Could be a cheap way to fix my problem forever and get a faster transmission. Your 562,5MM Maranello is great!!!

Erik

 

The 575M transaxle changed from the 550 transaxle by adding a dog clutch to the two synchro rings for effectively triple synchro in the lower gears. Form, fit, and function are identical to the 550 transaxle and so are the gear ratios. At least one 575M F1 conversion used a 550 transaxle instead of a 575M one because all the pieces were already attached and it simplified the swap. Worked fine so should be fine the other direction. Be advised you will need some plugs to fill holes for sensors, etc not needed with three pedals, but those should be available from Ferrari.

 

thanks,great write-up

 

Thanks for the info. Might be a good thing to do this winter. I could sell my old box too. What can expect to get for it? I sold one to a guy i Australia for about 6.000 Euro!

 

You will need some plugs for some of the unneeded sensors in the 575M gearbox. Also, you might need different hoses from the gearbox to the oil cooler in the left fender since the hoses are routed differently and have different angles on the ends. Check the pictures at RicambiAmerica.

To make the conversion you need to take off the manual shift mechanism from the 550 to replace the automated shift mechanism of the 575M. Once you do that, it may be difficult to sell the 550 box without it, depends on whether the buyer can take one from his gearbox.

 

Haven't yet had time to read through entire thread but I've just done the software process to convert any 360 firmware dump from F1 to H-gate and vice Versa. This actually changes the settings in your own firmware dump so it's guaranteed to work Vs trying to find the right ECUs to match your model year etc. I can also defeat immobilizer on 360 entirely in software so I'm confident I could do 550 too...

Pm if interested for me to look into it.

 

I love your signature. Over thirty years ago I had just joined a New York City law firm as a senior name partner. One late afternoon/early evening I was cleaning up some work when a young lawyer who had just become a junior partner entered my office and asked if I could review a Will he and an associate were preparing for a client. I did and went to his office with several changes, two of them important. He said: Mr. R., all of the secretaries have left, the client is in hospital, the client's health is precarious and we need to get the Will to the hospital right away. I thought our draft is good enough. I replied, David, merely saying the Will is good enough tells me that it is not good enough. Good enough means that it is not the best work that you and this office can produce. One of two things will result from this discussion. If your approach is what drives this law firm, by the end of this week I will no longer be a partner here. If mine does and you do not accept it you will no longer be a partner here.

 

Trev- 360 has Motronic 7.3 and 575M has Motronic 7.1.1 like the F430. Should be very similar.