Thats kinda my undestanding as well. I also tested it in slippery mode just to compare it to before and it also seemed the same. That being said what feels right will be close but it may not b exact. I do believe on the F1 being exact does make a difference and after 10 plus years of ownership this is why I ordered a. Gallileo. I hope it will do all I want.
Here are some of the details I don't know and am trying to learn: - The reference position for clutch open / closed. Example, the "Clutch position as new" of my car is 13.49 mm, the "self calibrated closed clutch position" is 20.73mm. That obviously suggests as the clutch wears, the closed position increases. But I would still like to understand the 2 points it's measuring. One of the them is the sensor to the target, but I want to know where the zero is (I don't ever believe the system will read a zero, just trying to understand the limits) - The PIS of my car on 7/28/17 was 2.34 mm. I want to connect my SD2 again and see if that value has changed. Perhaps I will do so this weekend. If one was to suggest that "self calibrated closed clutch position" and "PIS" are all that the system uses, it would seem as the PIS will always remain constant and as the clutch wears, the system can auto adjust which is what Skipp is suggesting. However, it's seems very clear from the WSM that the pickup point can be adjusted by altering the value of "clutch position as new". That said, "clutch position as new" appears to have more influence on the system then simply providing a wear percentage. That wear seems to mean something to the TCU and algorithms for characteristics of the clutch performance. Edit: OK, spoke with Matt again and ttying to wrap my head around this and I'm just confusing myself. This is what I posted recently and it is still valid: The "Clutch position as new" is also used in conjunction with PIS. As the clutch wears, the system uses the "clutch position as new" value (manually set to equal "self calibrated closed clutch position" when doing a new clutch) and the "self calibrated closed clutch position" to determine clutch wear and add to the PIS. So: Self calibrated closed clutch position - clutch position as new = wear Total PIS = PIS + Wear As you can see, not setting clutch position as new when replacing a clutch is not going to yield optimum results.
So the only real question I’m proposing is will the self calibration the car goes through handle all this automatically.
From what I am seeing and from experience it will generally work. From what I am reading it may work but not engauge the clutch untill 17 or 1800 rpm. The only way to reduce the engaugement is to setup with an sd
Matt and I have compare "Clutch position as new" and we have found variation. IIRC, up to 3mm which certain seem high but it's not just the clutch disk thickness, it's the stack up of tolerances
I would think the stack up is where the largest variable is. That being said I wonder if new too new with all new parts if the varible would be very small.
I just spoke with another highly respected tech in California that knows the system well. He said many times you need to adjust the "clutch position as new" to get the car to pickup correctly. He said he does not know the formula but it does impact PIS. He also said when he replaces a clutch, he runs the actuator centering routine.
He said many times you need to adjust the "clutch position as new" to get the car to pickup correctly. Dave thanks again for your effort. Could this be interpreted as things are fine if it picks up correctly ?
For now, sure. But I'm speculating as the clutch wears they won't. I know people are not going to believe this but in general, manufactures typically don't create systems and tools that are not needed just so they can sell you phony service. I made the investment in an SD2 because I want to service my own car and in doing so, I want the correct tools so my hands are not tied behind my back The first major service I do myself will almost pay for the tool
I'll be the first to admit I don't know squat about the F1 system, but I've been following and also reading the WSM. Granted the WSM may be incomplete, even misleading. But it does say that the PIS is found each time the car is started and the closed clutch position found after each shift. Based on my interpretation of what PIS is, I don't see how it would relate to clutch wear. It will change with clutch wear, but doesn't seem to define clutch wear. Seems to me that if you don't load the new closed clutch position when the clutch is replaced you could have the TCU reporting non zero clutch wear with a new clutch because whatever was loaded in the TCU for the (old) new clutch closed position could be different from the (new) new close clutch position of the new clutch. Or more simply stated, the reference position for the new clutch would be in error. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Yes, that is the "self calibrated closed clutch position", not the "clutch position as new" What we know for a fact is that altering the "clutch position as new" impacts the characteristics of the clutch engagement.
It's my understanding that the TCU of a 355 will allow the wear to exceed 100%. IIRC, early 360's apparently do the same but later and thru 430 do not.
Yes, I get that. But it is not a all clear how since the PIS is "detected" at each start up. Clearly there is a lot missing here. And how can you have more than 100% clutch wear. That alone says the system isn't very sophisticated. It's not at all clear what defines clutch wear.
Maybe it only needs this new clutch closed position initially. After it operates a few times it uses the self calibrated one??
That only tells you how the position changed, or how much the clutch thickness was reduced, say in mm. You would have to know what the new clutch thickness is as well. What does the SD# report? mm of ware or 100%? I keep reading here that the wear is reported in %.
