California T Steering.... | FerrariChat

California T Steering....

Discussion in 'California/Portofino/Roma' started by Cali from CT, Oct 10, 2018.

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  1. Cali from CT

    Cali from CT Rookie

    Jun 27, 2018
    18
    Naples, FL
    Having received a first class education from forum members on the Cali brakes ("over-boosted or ceramic sensitive?"), parts of that thread spoke to the Cali T steering. It sparked my interest and I thought a new thread would encourage more comments from owners. Now, about the Cali T steering... remarkable to say the least. Quick, precise rack with sharp turn-in. A few complaints: a) self-centering of the steering wheel is poor, and b) under moderate cornering, the steering remains light; it doesn't load progressively. By comparison, my Audi R8 and Porsche 996 steering was heavier, self-centered better and communicated cornering load (though turn-in didn't feel as sharp as the Cali).
    I'd appreciate the views of owners. Thanks in advance.
     
    ScottS likes this.
  2. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,425
    Full Name:
    Michael
    Heavier steering feel, slower steering racks generally exhibit more understeer which under normal driving conditions, tend to discourage fast cornering (especially on unregulated speeds on the Autobahn). From experience, German carmakers like to dial moderate understeer into their cars. However, neutral steering or oversteer are favoured by racing drivers as they help to deliver faster steering and cornering because the car will rotate more readily and not plow ...into the outside barriers. Ferrari prefers to maintain light, fast steering to facilitate faster cornering or drifting. The rack in the CaliT is 2.2 turns lock-lock, which is very fast, likely much faster than the R8 and 996. 4WD and AWD will also exhibit inherent understeer. You should give yourself a bit of time to get used to the fast Fcar steering racks. Steering inputs should be light, progressive and exact with no need to tug or wrench the wheel around even in a hairpin.

    Steering feel and centering are "different matters". They can be affected by the toe (more toe-in can help to centre the car, improve tracking). Increasing negative camber can also reduce vague steering, improve cornering. Check tire pressures. Very often, it can just be due to the specific model of tires you are using on this car model and some tires actually must use pressures that may not conform to the standard pressures spec'd by the carmaker. There are other factors that also affect cornering feel. As usual, dialing in too much of any adjustment will create other problems so changes need to be measured and incremental.
     
  3. Cali from CT

    Cali from CT Rookie

    Jun 27, 2018
    18
    Naples, FL
    Many thanks for your comments. While I can appreciate a fast steering rack (2.2), don't sneeze or cough while driving at triple-digit speeds and hold on tight. So far, that's been my experience. Perhaps it's a matter of acclimation. We'll see. By the way, I didn't think heavier weighted steering or a slower steering rack would affect understeer or oversteer. Thought this was more a function of suspension tuning, weight distribution, etc.
     
  4. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,425
    Full Name:
    Michael
    If the steering feels too light when you are going flat out on a track or even at highway speeds, even after having spent enough time to fully get used to the steering you may indeed want to check and possibly modify the alignment as I suggested but first verify the car was already set up to factory spec. IMO, the light steering feel of the current Fcars is more suited for spirited driving on roads. If you routinely track your Fcar you would benefit from some changes to the tires, suspension as well as other adjustments.

    Heavier weighted steering, if it is achieved by changing the tires or suspension setup, can introduce understeer if understeer is not sufficiently mitigated by other adjustments because it would be the tires and/or how the suspension set up the tires that create the heavier steering. The car may rotate less readily to steering input if you get it wrong.

    OTOH, if you can somehow reduce the power steering boost to increase steering effort and create heavier steering feel then same amount of turning of the steering wheel will still result in the same amount of rotation of the car because the tires and suspension haven't changed, so there's no additional understeer. However, I don't think it's practical to try to change the amount of power steering boost.

    As for the faster steering rack, it also does not affect how your tires and suspension work, and only allows you to turn the steering rack faster. So if your car has horrible understeer, it may not turn enough even you arrive at full lock 2x faster than before ...and your car will still plow straight, wheels fully turned, into the corner barriers.

    Understeer is caused at the tires' contact patch interfaces with the road surface, it's not with some part inside the car like a fast or slow rack.
     
  5. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,797
    Gladwyne PA
    Full Name:
    Morrie
    I have been pretty fortunate to have owned and driven some pretty amazing cars, even some one of a kinds. I do not find the steering in the T that communitive, but as I have said many times everyone's experiences with cars is different and so are their expectations. When you compare a front engine RWD car to a rear engine car, to a mid engine AWD car, well they are like apples and oranges as far as driving dynamics. There are so many variables when it comes to setting up a car. I remember back when I turn my 04 Gallardo to RWD, tried a few different wheels and tires, and getting the suspension to comply was a PIA. Someone recently said to me that I have forgotten more about cars than most people will ever know, my reply was I don't know I forget what I have forgotten.
     
  6. SB27

    SB27 Karting

    Dec 2, 2015
    125
    My experience with the Ferrari California T (2016 model) steering feel can be summed up with one word: Exceptional.

    I cannot compare it to other F car models as this is my first. Compared to pretty much all the Porsches I have driven and/or raced, it is "right there" with the better Porsche 911's (the new ones) that also have precise steering. Compared to the older generation 911's I raced, it is obviously much much lighter, quicker and sharper. 4th Gear's post above is spot on (thank you for that detail).

    In fact, one knock on the 911.1 cars was the imprecision of the new electronic steering. That has been fixed (and then some) in the 911.2 series. I know this as I own a 2018 GT3. The California T and Porsche GT3 could not be more different cars. That said, I would categorize both as having excellent steering (and even brakes, as noted in the ceramic brake discussion earlier.....which was also spot on (thanks, 4thGear).

    If you want the "grabbiest" ceramic brakes out there today go fire up a McLaren 570s spider, drive around town and report back to us about your updated version of what the word "grabby" can actual feel like. That is not McLaren's fault as 4thGear notes in his piece. Those brakes were designed to be powerful. In my opinion, too powerful for just putting around in a 570s around town. At the track? I am sure I would love them to bits.
     
  7. SB27

    SB27 Karting

    Dec 2, 2015
    125
    I hear you when comparing the California T to a Gallardo (even an earlier one). However, my opinion of the 2016 Cali T is that it has excellent steering feel for a GT car of it's size and mass - let alone a drop top. Impressive.
     
  8. matteni

    matteni Rookie

    Jun 2, 2005
    7
    I might have missed it but one important factor

    Does your cali T have the HS upgrade?
     
  9. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,797
    Gladwyne PA
    Full Name:
    Morrie
    No mine does not, but yesterday I went on Algars rally and it handled it well. I have said this many times, we all have different experiences and expectations when it comes to the cars we have had. I don't dislike the T, I just have my opinion of it.
     
  10. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,797
    Gladwyne PA
    Full Name:
    Morrie
    I just noticed 2 days ago was my 15th anniversary on here. That is the longest I have spent with anything in my entire life.
     
    tomc likes this.
  11. Cali from CT

    Cali from CT Rookie

    Jun 27, 2018
    18
    Naples, FL
    You mentioned that the Cali and GT3 could not be more different. Would you mind elaborating on that? Thanks.
     
  12. SB27

    SB27 Karting

    Dec 2, 2015
    125
    The 2018 GT3 is a 4.0 liter, NA motor. It definitely winds up crazy fast and has a 9k redline. It also has limited sound dampening and with a GMG exhaust, it just wails at high RPM. Different than a 458 Speciale (which is awesome) but it wails nonetheless.

    It’s hard to describe but a 991.2 GT3 with a GMG or Sharkwerks exhaust is pretty much as close to F1 sounds and feel on in a street car as I have ever seen / felt.

    I love the Cali T (refined, precise, gorgeous, elegant, exotic) but it is different than the GT3.
     
  13. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,425
    Full Name:
    Michael
    The 991 series GT3 and RS are a couple of the best weekend track cars available while the Cali is one of the best top-down country roads grand touring cars available. The GT3 and RS are also coupés (with a roof) and have much stiffer suspensions while the Cali has no roof support, much softer suspension and an extra 660 lbs to boot. So aside from other performance differences, the GT3 and RS will always handle way better than a Cali.

    OTOH, my Cali30 HS actually has stiffer springs than the 991.1 GT3 which is partly why it handles much better than a regular Cali30 HS, at any speed. Like I have often alluded, if you seek performance but don't modify your Cali, it will always work and feel like the broad-appeal marketing tool for other Fcars it was originally designed to be. Ferrari did not design it to challenge the 458, FF or the F12. They did the opposite.
     

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